Providing help to people in distress

[MaryfromBrum]

Basic demographic statistics tell me that there must be loads of folk with 20, 30 or even 40 years of stable and happy marriage behind them who could provide valuable support to users of Mumsnet Talk. These same people could also provide a wealth of stories explaining how they coped with the various problems identified by current users of the site. The sad truth is I am not convinced that many of them would want to get involved: certainly not as anything more than lurkers.

Giving advice, certainly anything more than very general advice such as ?see a doctor?, based on only knowing half the story is clearly a very risky process. I respectfully suggest that anybody who has made their marriage work for many years would be well aware of this. Sadly it looks to me as if few posters make the effort to present a balanced review of their situation since time and again I have waded through lengthy lists of the faults of a husband without seeing any mentions of faults attributable to the wife. I suggest that experienced ?marrieds?, the very type with most to offer, will not get involved on this basis. Frankly we have more sense.

The older potential users of the site have a much lower tolerance of bad language than the younger generation and the routine use of bad language by some people giving advice will scare off exactly the type of person with most to offer. In the same way the ?all men are bastards? view of the world expounded by some posters is almost wholly counter-productive if providing support to people in distress is really own aim.

[howtotellmum]

Your point being?

I am an older user of MN- I do find that many of my views are outside those routinely posted by younger mums- and I agree that the language ( swearing) grates a bit even though I happily swear like a trooper at home.

But what is the point you are making? Is it that you would like to see more older mums orlonger-married mums using MN and being able to give adiffernt perspective.

I agree with some of the other points you make, such as the overly sisterly support, as if all women are totally fault-free in a relationship as my own belief is that it takes two to make a marriage work, or not work.

[l39]

I'm in the happy position of still being in love with my husband - and vice versa - after 18 years, but still I don't think I'm qualified to answer many questions. We've been very lucky - would my relationship have survived infertility, longterm bad health, domestic violence, loss of a child? I have no idea. I have no right to preach to people about how to keep their marriages going when they have faced strains I've never had to cope with.

[MaryfromBrum]

You are totally correct. I would like to see more older mums and dads feeling confident enough to post here.

I am not convinced that the impression of overwhelmingly youthful lady posters will facilitate what I would like to see.

[gettingagrip]

Maryfrombrum and howtotellmum....

how very lucky you both are to have been able to have long happy partnerships with lovely understanding men who obviously have none of the following attributes....

mental illness...personality disorders....control issues...violent tendencies...etc etc etc

This is MUMS net..in case you have not noticed... this is why there are more posts from WOMEN in distress than from men. And nowhere do the kind people who take time out of their often nightmare own lives to give advice EVER say that men are bastards etc.

How very patronising and narrow-minded, and frankly dangerous to say that there are always two sides to a story. That the woman (or man) who is being abused is at fault also.

Why don't you have a spell volunteering at Womans Aid, and see how your closed minds are affected then?

I am an 'older' mum....I am 51...older than you probably....I have just left a very long nightmare marriage with a family from Hell....my own birth family was the family from Hell....

is that my fault? Or even partly my fault?

Your posts are truly upsetting and insulting.

[gettingagrip]

And ...mumfrombrum...I recognise your posting style....are you being deliberately provocative?

[AccioPinotGrigio]

"Mary" the forum is what it is. It has been running along these lines for years. Sure there are times when advice given is skewed or imbalanced but there are also times when the advice given is simply genius and life-changing. Lots of women (and I am sure men) have been helped enormously by the contribution of the various members of Mumsnet, that is probably why it is the most successful parenting forum in the UK.

Since you feel you have so much to offer why not offer it. Post regularly. I think I have only seen you on one post before this one.

[AccioPinotGrigio]

gettingagrip - great post!

[howtotellmum]

Gettingagrip- I am older than you are.

You post is as patronsiing and one-sided as the post (er) you criticise.

You have no right to make any assumptions about my marriage and what I have or have not experienced. How do you know what tragedies I might have had in my life?

How do you know I don't work with Women's Aid? How do you claim to know anything about my life? How very condescending of you to think you have the monopoly on life's shitty events.

I think what the OP was trying to say is that what is often posted here is aknee-jerk reaction to a situaiton, where the posters cannot step outside their own experiences and their "advice" is one-sided.

[AccioPinotGrigio]

I really take issue with the opening post. It was suggesting that younger people who do not have long term marriages behind them cannot offer objective, informed advice. It was also suggesting that the advice given on here is always one-side and dangerous. I think I must have been posting on another forum since 2004 because I often find that no matter what is said on any thread there is always, ultimately a balance of views provided.

[gettingagrip]

Actually howtotellmum, I made no assumptions at all, but I did ask a few questions.

I note these have not been answered.

I can also say without a shadow of doubt that ANYONE who has any experience of life with an abuser or a person with a severe personality disorder will NEVER in a million years EVER say that it takes two to tango.

I also have NEVER claimed to have the monopoly on shitty events...quite the contrary ..I am blessed with many good things.

Methinks you doth protest too much.

I can tell exactly what the OP was trying to say without you translating for me.

And it is dangerous to tell someone (man or woman) who is being abused that things will get better if they accept their part in the problem. Which is what you are saying when you say that there are two sides to every story. Would you say that to a child who has been abused??? It's just as much your fault as the abusers? As this is in essence what you are saying.

Of course people post from their point of view, this is the nature of the site and what makes it so wonderful.

Getting on your high horse because someone has the cheek to disagree with you helps no-one.

[MaryfromBrum]

Dear gettingagrip

Yes of course some men have mental illness...personality disorders....control issues...violent tendencies...etc etc etc just as you say. So do women but there is remarkably little acknowledgement of it in the posts I have read.

Of course there are two sides to every story. How can any rational person claim otherwise? Passing judgement on a situation after hearing only half the details of a situation is wholly unsatisfactory and can be harmful to any resolution. Imagine a jury attempting to reach a decision before the defense has been allowed to present any evidence!

Why should you find my alternative perspective upsetting and insulting. Perhaps I should be getting upset at the thought of the people not getting the help and advice they need because some experienced helpers might feel unable to participate in the group. Off hand I cannot think of a single man who would touch this thread with a proverbial bargepole. Are you really so disinterested in the views of 50% of the potential users of the site.

Incidently I don?t care one iota about the balance of posts posted for or against my views. The ones most likely to post are by definition more likely to support the status quo. Lurkers or non members are a totally different matter!

[gettingagrip]

Accio...agree totally...how terrible to say that a younger person's views are rubbish.

I think this OP posted to deliberately cause ructions.

[OrmIrian]

I am an older MNer. I have a long marriage. I frequently whinge about my DH but am also painfully aware of my shortcomings. And I swear like a trooper.

I'm not sure what you want to acheive by this.

[whoisasking]

The OP says:

"Giving advice, certainly anything more than very general advice such as ?see a doctor?, based on only knowing half the story is clearly a very risky process."

So, unless posters (who have come to MN needing guidance and advice) can persuade their OH to post their side of the story, we Mners should sit on our hands and not try to help?

Brilliant.

[gettingagrip]

Well Mary...there are many brilliant men who post on this site.

Short of passing a law to make it illegal for the entire population NOT to post on MUMSnet every day..I am not sure how you can get a more 'balanced' view.

You are very good at twisting what has been said. Not good enough though!

Instead of ranting on about the 'imbalance', why don't you just get yourself on a few threads and pitch in with some advice.

There are a couple of threads running at the moment about abusive and dangerous men which I would imagine would be right up your street.

Get your self onto those threads and advise away. I am sure that your view that the abused is equally to blame will be welcomed by all the posters on those threads.

[GypsyMoth]

Er, how do you know the age of the mumsnetter anyway?or length of marriage etc? Most don't have a profile.........

Maybe you should have one Mary? Would love to know how high your horse is.....

[howtotellmum]

GAG"Getting on your high horse because someone has the cheek to disagree with you helps no-one"

lol- pots and kettles, methnks.

"Actually howtotellmum, I made no assumptions at all, but I did ask a few questions"

GAG "how very lucky you both are to have been able to have long happy partnerships with lovely understanding men who obviously have none of the following attributes....

mental illness...personality disorders....control issues...violent tendencies...etc etc etc"

Try as I might, I cannot see the QUESTION in that sentence. It is certainly a presumptuous statement though.

I said....it takes two to make a marriage work, or not work.

Tell me where in all of that I mentioned abuse of any kind? For what it is worth, I have worked in a professional capacity with people who have suffered abuse- so just be careful of what you assume please.

[gettingagrip]

howto...it was an ironic statement certainly.

So , answer me this question....the one I put in a previous post...is the abused equally at fault?

Simple question...

[MaryfromBrum]

I am unclear as to why gettingagrip has to misrepresent what I said.

Where, exactly did I say ?that a younger person's views are rubbish?. The answer is nowhere.

Where, exactly did I say ?the abused is equally to blame?. The answer is nowhere. Indeed I don?t see that anybody has said that.

If you really need to lie about people who differ from your particular view of mumsnet then I think it tells readers far, far more about you than me.

[lisasimpson]

how did we get on to 'abuse' anyway - the original post was talking about people in distress I thought?

[AccioPinotGrigio]

MaryfromBrum said> I don't care one Iota for the balance of views posted for or against my posts. The ones most likely to post are by definition more likely to support the status quo. Lurkers or non members are a totally different matter!

That's just by your definition though isn't it Mary.

[howtotellmum]

GAG- I think you need some help on the meaning and usage of "irony".

I am not prepared to turn this thread into one on abuse- start another thread if you wish to discuss.

[AccioPinotGrigio]

I think we need to go back to howtotellmum's original post which asked Mary a very pertinent question:

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Possibly I am just youthful and thick but could you please spell out exactly what it is your saying.

For me the inference was that you are not offended by the hoards of young women on mumsnet posting one-sided, anti-male sentiments and swearing a lot. I also got from your opening post that you think older, long term married individuals are much better placed to offer balanced advice but do not post it because "they have more sense" - more sense than the youthful ladies who cannot facilitate what you want to see?

What do you want to see Mary?

[AccioPinotGrigio]

Lots of typos in my last post the key one being that you ARE offended by the hoards of young etc. Delte the word NOT from that sentence.

[AccioPinotGrigio]

Lots of typos in my last post the key one being that you ARE offended by the hoards of young etc. Delte the word NOT from that sentence.