Just had our first choice place withdrawn

[fin35]

I am in total shock and need a bit of a rant!

We have just had our first choice place withdrawn due to an admin error. Despite the school checking distances 4 times by different people they got ours wrong and have taken our place away to give it to someone living nearer. The school is faith based (although we have non faith place) so can make up their own rules.

Truly devastated because I stupidly got excited and told DD that she would be going to school with all her friends from pre-school. I know she will get over it - BUT - they just didn't seem to comprehend that the whole process is an emotional rollercoaster as it is without the rug being pulled out 5 days after hearing great news.

Now we have to deal with waiting lists for schools when we thought the process was sorted - and also have to look at changing the pre-school place for my DS because I physically won't be able to get him there and get my daughter to school because of the commute between sites. AGGHHH!!!

[SE13Mummy]

Sorry to hear your news. Was it the school or the LA who withdrew the place? There are rules and legal precedents to determine whether or not a place can be withdrawn once offered and in one case the place was reinstated because of a 3 day delay in informing parents of the error.... you may be able to challenge this!

[sunnydelight]

Do normal "breach of contract" rules apply to school offers? I would get legal advice if I were you.

[kitchensinkdrama]

thats awful, you must appeal. good luck

[CreativeZen]

Did the offer come from the LEA?

Once the LA has made an offer of a school place, it can only be lawfully withdrawn in very limited circumstances. For instance if the place was offered on the basis of fraudulent or intentionally misleading information, or where a parent has not responded to an offer within the specified time scale. Where a place is withdrawn, the application would then be considered afresh, and a right of appeal offered if a place is refused.

I think the misleading or fraudulent information has to have come from you, so, if this is not the case, then I don't think they have the right to withdraw the offer once made and accepted. I presume you had accepted the offer before they withdrew it?

[MumNWLondon]

I can see that this is truly devastating. And yes I know that faith schools seem to be able to do what they want.

I think you need to call the school and find out your position on the waiting list, as if you are at or close to the top a place might come up before September anyway. If they did check a few times I bet that the other person lives a fraction nearer and you are at the top of the list eg maybe they did it on postcodes rather than on exact house location??

Once you have found that out, tell them that you are very upset about what happened and that you will be appealing - you should definately appeal - I am assuming it was the LEA who notified you that you had the place? Also even though there is a limit of 30 in infants they are allowed 31 on appeal

[titchy]

I'd challenge it too. An offer of a place should be the same as a legally binding contract. Take it further!

[admission]

As Creative Zen says there are very limited circumstances where a school place can be withdrawn and a genuine mistake having been made is not one of them.
Were you totally honest on the application form - right post code and address etc and you were formaly offered a place in writing by the Local Authority on behalf of the school?
There are legal cases over the withdrawal of places, which are very complicated but if the time to withdrawal was hours then they may get away with it, if it was a number of days then this is not likely to be valid legally.5 days is far to long and you should not be accepting this.
What should have happened was that the admission authority (in this case the school) should have informed the LA that a mistake had been made in your case. There is little ability to withdraw the place, so what they should have done is accepted a mistake was made and offered a further place in the school to the unlucky next applicant on the admission criteria list, not withdrawn yours. It is not your fault they cannotmeasure the right distance.
You need to go back to the LA, tell them in writing that having taken advice that you do not believe that the place should have been withdrawn. Say you wish to appeal on the basis of maladministration by the admission authority and the Local Authority and see what happens. Do not do it verbally put everything in writing and make sure that you keep the offer letter - this is a key piece of evidence if it goes to appeal. I suspect if the LA has anything about them they will realise that they have made a mistake and re-instate the place.
Good luck

[fin35]

Hi Sorry for the delay - DS been in hospital with a horrible sickness bug - it is rife here!

Now I can get my mind back on to the Schools situation.

The admissions letters were sent out on the Friday. Parents were able to look on line at 7am ~Saturday morning. We accepted our place on line by 7.30 am.

The School realised the mistake on the Monday when a mother informed the school that her child must be offered a place because she knew of parents who lived further away that had a place and yet she had not. The school contacted Surrey on the Monday - the letter we received was dated from the Monday but due to the post not received until the Wednesday.

We did not lie on the form - the school put another address as being 700 metres away when they were actually 300 odd.

A letter has finally come back from the Governors having taken over a week to respond basically washing their hands over the whole business.

Also we had been told that we are top of the waiting list for the community places however the Governors state that the waiting list is doen purely on location - ie if someone moves into the area nearer to the school to us they then scoot to the top of the list.
We had asked to be put to the top of the school's list - no matter what the faith as we feel morally this is the correct thing to do - they will not do this.

We have all the documentation - including a BACK DATED letter from the LA confirming the revised place.

If we went the legal route what type of Solicitor are we looking for??

thanks

[admission]

Firstly the school is being correct in terms of what it can currently offer you in terms of places, they have to do it by criteria order.
Please keep all the doucmentation, I am sure the panel will be mighty impressed by a back-dated letter from the LA, as they try and explain how they have carried out the correct admission process!
The latest information on the timing of the knowledge of acceptance and of receiving the rejection letter does weaken your case somewhat as they could realistically argue that it was within one school day. Did they not contact you by phone or anything before sending the letter? If not that is actually a good point to raise that the LA did not take any actions to correct the situation other than send a letter - totally inadequate response in my view.

However the basic arguement is that the school / La should not have withdrawn you place but given an extra place to the complainant.
It is upto you whether you employ a lawyer but if you do you need to make sure that it is an education lawyer who understands admissions not just a lawyer who starts reading it up. If you do employ a lawyer then you need to inform the LA about it. They will almost for sure then instruct a lawyer themselves. The panel will then be faced with two lawyers each trying to outdo themselves (sorry to lawyers but its true!) There is a danger that you might find that the use of a lawyer is actually more of a problem than a help.

[TrowelAndError]

There are a few firms of solicitors specialising in school admissions - the one I have heard most about (but this is NOT a recommendation as I've never used their services) is called Match, based in London.

You can also get advice from the Advisory Centre for Education, who have (sadly) heard it all before.

[MotherJack]

The Schools Admissions Code says that there are very limited circumstances in which an offered place can be withdrawn, although I can't find evidence of what those circumstances are - other than fraudulent applications by the parents.

The Admissions Authority (or school if they are a faith school that set their own admissions criteria - do you know which it is by the way?) have got the process wrong by offering places unduly. I don't think this falls into "exceptional circumstances". The person that was not give a place should have been left to appeal - unfortunately the Authority/school know they would win appeal and are track covering. Just a note here... if you fail at appeal I am pretty sure the Ombudsman would be on your side.

Their incompetence is not grounds for withdrawing a place. I agree with Admission that engaging a solicitor could do more harm than good. I think that the bloke from schoolappeals.com is based down your way though?

[prh47bridge]

Actually no, the person that was not given a place should NOT have been left to appeal unless a large number of people were affected. The rule is that if the admission authority has made a mistake and the child would have been admitted if they'd got it right, they are required to admit the child without an appeal. However, if the mistake affects a lot of people and the school could not cope if they were all admitted, it does then fall to an appeal panel to sort out the mess.

I would also agree that getting a solicitor involved is not a good idea. Many have no idea about education law. I know of at least one case where a solicitor thoroughly turned the panel against his client by approaching the appeal as if he was in a court of law.

If I were you I would be complaining long and loud to the admissions authority - is that the school or the LA?

[MotherJack]

Oh, ok. So that to me then PRH, reads as though that one person should have been admitted without withdrawing the place already offered?

[OrmRenewed]

That sounds appalling! You've had advice on here already but I hope you manage to make them change their minds

[prh47bridge]

MotherJack - That is correct. The authority made a mistake in admitting the OP's DD. Assuming only one child missed out on the place as a result of the mistake they should simply have admitted that child, even though it took the school over its admission number.

If they'd really messed it up and 20 children had missed out on places that they should have got those 20 should have been given appeals. It would still be wrong to withdraw places that have already been offered.

Having said that, timing is important here. The courts have dealt with one case where the LA withdrew the offer the same day it was made. In that case they decided that the LA was in the clear. On the other hand, the LGO found against an LA which tried to withdraw offers 5 days after they were made. This case is therefore somewhat in no man's land but, as Admission says, if they only sent a letter that undermines the LA's case somewhat. The backdated letter also helps the OP.

[fin35]

Hi

Thankyou for all of the advice. I have kept all of the paperwork thankfully!

I have had a busy morning. I have been on the telephone with The Childrens Legal Centre but as I do not qualify for legal aid I cannot speak with their education advisors.

They pointed me towards The Advisory Centre For Education who have told me to appeal through the normal routes but most importantly find out who exactly made the mistake and get that information in writing.
The Governors have confirmed in writing that it was the Admissions Panel. We just need to get it confirmed that The Admissions Panel is the School. On a different note this School is Voluntary Aided using Surrey County Council's Co-ordinated Admissions Scheme which makes it even more tricky to get to the bottom of it all.

Para 1.5 of the Schools Admission Code explains the very limited circumstances of ability to withdraw a place but we seem to be in a bit of no-mans land with it. The Code also seems a little vague - it uses the word reasonable which is of course subject to interpretation.

To answer the question about contact other than standard letter - no we didn't get any contact apart from the withdrawal letter. It is this lack of care that angers me most about the whole process and has actually made me more determined to fight!

As I understand it, The School got a complaint on the Monday from the family who lived nearer. The School informed Surrey. Between them they discussed the options which resulted in the withdrawal of offer from the School.

The School seem to think that they had no duty of care to call us. They have apologised that Surrey didn't call us!!! Anyone worth anything in business knows that when you make a mistake you put your hand up, apologise immediately and make noises that you will do the best you can to rectify the situation. In this instance the School waited for us to call them as we were told to do on the letter from Surrey!!! Surely they should know how much worse this would make the situtation - although obviously not!

What also grates me is that this school has different legal obligations than regular State Schools.

[genevaflying]

"There are a few firms of solicitors specialising in school admissions - the one I have heard most about (but this is NOT a recommendation as I've never used their services) is called Match, based in London."

I have used this firm (for SEN issues) and can thoroughly recommend them. I don't know if they work nationwide if you aren't in London. They have razor sharp knowledge of education law, very sympathetic and friendly and aren't confrontational at all, in fact they usually try to sort things out before an appeal hearing itself, which reduces costs as then you don't have to pay for representation. It sounds as if you have a slightly complex case as there is no precedent for your situation so you do need some specialised advice.

If you want to look at other firms, here is an NAS list of solicitors who have experience with ASDs; many of them are education specialists and there are links to other sources of legal advice too.

Have namechanged but am a reg poster btw.

[admission]

If the school is voluntary aided then they are the admission authority. The school will have an admission panel who are responsible for agreeing the rank order of everybody who applied to the school. They then pass this list back to the LA who do all the administration and come up with the final list of pupils who can be admitted upto the admission number (taking into consideration the preferences indicated by the parents).

So it is the school who have made the mistake from your post and they have admitted it in writing. To me this is case closed time and maybe what you should be saying in writing to the LA and the school.

There is a bit in paragraph 1.50 of the admission code that has always worried me and nobody has ever been able to explain properly. This says under reasons why a place may be withdrawn "or where a place was offered under co-ordination by the local authority, not the admission authority, in error." This is actually the situation you are in and may be the reason why the LA and school are saying that they are withdrawing the place. It depends on how you want to read the sentence, but I read it as applying when the LA have made a mistake not the admission authority. In this instance it is the admission authority who have made the mistake, so the place should not be withdrawn.

[BetsyBoop]

admission - I have always read that particular phrase to mean that the admissions authority of a VA school have ranked a child too low to get a place, but under the co-ordination scheme the LA have sent them an offer of a place in error - i.e. the admissions authority did it right but the LA cocked up at co-ordination.

In the case in question here, the admissions panel at the school have admitted the mistake, so it doesn't apply & the offer of a place should be honoured.

[BetsyBoop]

fin35

see this thread for details of the LGO case to quote to them about the length of time to withdraw the place being too long.

[fin35]

Thanks all. Our final email has been sent to the Governors expressing desire for an immediate response. Naturally they haven't!

The Appeal is in process of being written with a deadline of Friday and then we should hear quite quickly I believe. In the meantime we are hoping the school will have a place come available and give it to us and then not bother dragging through the appeals process. In the meantime the Community is horrified and many parents with Children in the School embarrased by their behaviour.

Fingers and toes crossed for a positive outcome or its a 6 mile round trip come September....

[CarGirl]

We live in Surrey and the dds school is ran by the LEA so not a faith school.

The same thing happened at the dds school for the current reception class.

What happened is that the LEA did not withdraw the place of the child who "should not" have been given the place instead Surrey were able to make and acception to the 30 rule and there are now 31 in the class. This is one of the few reasons (I have been told by a school governer) underwhich a school is permitted to have more than 30 in and infant class.

HTH

[nighbynight]

No useful advice, but just want to add my sympathy. I was offered the best job I am ever likely to get in my career two years ago. It was withdrawn, a few weeks later, and no reasons were given.
I couldnt do anything to force them to give me a job. I do hope you will be more successful with the school place. Its inexcusable to put you through this, because they cant be bothered to get their facts right. Recording addresses is hardly rocket science.

[fin35]

Thanks all.
Nighbynight - awful situation you have been put through. It is shocking how our emotions can be played with so easily isn't it!
Like you say reading addresses is hardly rocket science!

Theoretically it is a cut and dried case of the school just not actually being allowed to do what they did! However.....time will tell! The waiting lists will get drawn up shortly so hopefully the school will be able to give us a "spare place" without the trauma of an appeals panel!! I am not phased by one, just my ability to keep calm!!

[prh47bridge]

You shouldn't really need an appeal for this. As Admission says, the school have admitted in writing that they made a mistake. That's case closed time.

Did you make it clear in your email to the Governors that you were making a formal complaint? If not, I would send them another email making a formal complaint and pointing out that, under the School Admissions Code paragraph 1.50, there are only very limited grounds for withdrawing a place once it has been offered. Administrative error by the admission authority is not one of them. I would mention the Local Government Ombudsman's ruling in case 99C01876. In that case the LGO ruled that a 3 day delay between making an offer and withdrawing it amounted to maladministration and recommended that the children involved (there were 5 of them) should be admitted. Indeed, I would mention the LGO as often as possible in your complaint! You should also send your complaint to the Director of Children's Services at the LA.

If your email to the Governors was worded as a formal complaint and they have rejected it or failed to respond in a reasonable time, I would contact the LGO. In my experience they deal with school admissions cases very quickly (I've been to them twice and they took about 3 weeks each time). At the very least they would advise you what further steps you need to take before they will look at your case.

An appeal panel should get this right if they've been properly trained. However, I've dealt with two appeal panels neither of which had been properly trained (hence my two referrals to the LGO). I would therefore be making every possible effort to get this resolved before the appeal.