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Trump promises zero tax for the poor and slashed tax for the middle class

(31 Posts)
claig Mon 28-Sep-15 16:41:01

Is Labour's John McDonnell learning from people's politician Donald Trump about how to deliver a people's tax plan?

Trump says he will soak the rich and slash taxes for everyone else. If Trump goes for this, the Establishment candidates will lose the election and the people's President will be Donald Trump.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3251512/Trump-promises-millions-Americans-ZERO-cent-tax-Donald-plans-cut-tax-middle-class-corporations-raise-payments-rich-pay-taking-jobs-China-Mexico.html

Can Corbyn's real Labour learn from populist Trump and soak the Tory-lites in their two kitchen multiple mansions?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3251512/Trump-promises-millions-Americans-ZERO-cent-tax-Donald-plans-cut-tax-middle-class-corporations-raise-payments-rich-pay-taking-jobs-China-Mexico.html

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 16:46:24

If Labour learn from populist politicians like Trump and Farage (from whom they have already pinched the "straight-talking honest politics" message) then the future looks bleak for the Piers Gaveston. It doesn't matter what hocus pocus they get up to while doing the hokey cokey in formal dinner attire, the game will be up.

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 16:50:03

Trump says he will scrap the Free Trade Agreement if countries don't play ball with Trump's trade deals and policies. If he does that, then the same thing will happen to the political class's European Union.

We are seeing a worldwide resurgence of the people and panic among the elites.

Isitmebut Mon 28-Sep-15 16:50:55

NEWSFLASH,

The Conservatives have both slashed the tax rates for the poor (as millions that paid tax under Labour just above £6k will have that nearly doubled under the Conservatives) and raised the Labour Minimum Wage objective - from a position of a private economic recovery, not the overtaxed, no confidence, under appreciated, private sector Labour LEFT in 2010 and Corbynism wants to revert back to in 2020.

Not a scare story, Old McDonnell said so in todays speech.

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 16:55:06

'The Conservatives have both slashed the tax rates for the poor (as millions that paid tax under Labour just above £6k will have that nearly doubled under the Conservatives) '

Yes, but only thanks to the LibDems and UKIP. Before the LibDems pushed for this and before UKIP was on the tails of the Piers Gaveston, neither Labour or Tory did anything about the tax paid by the poor for decades.

If McDonnell thinks outside of the box, doesn't tax the middle class but taxes the Blairites and the Tory-lites and listens to populist politicians then Labour will win a landslide.

Isitmebut Tue 29-Sep-15 11:16:31

Claig … as usual your posts are as useful/accurate as pouring tea from a chocolate tea pot.

Any political party promising mass give aways/tax cuts prior to the 2010 General Election, without having first seeing the UK books being put together by a highly politicised UK Treasury Department with tax revenues denial – was being irresponsible, especially if like the Tories PROTECTING the then NHS budget other parties wouldn’t.

UKIP’s role in all this, lying that several UKIP Westminster MP’s could stop immigration and take us out of the EU, was to first by taking the Tory votes ENSURE there was a Lib Dem coalition – and quite how their (then) policy of a 31% Flat Tax including National Insurance would have helped the poorest – beats the hell outa me.

But as the Conservative led coalition saw UK real (inflation adjusted) earnings that had fallen from 2008 was not correcting, they were open to helping the people via tax cuts, especially as cutting back 13-years of the previous governments BIG State waste as a spending review or tax cuts would never have occurred to them, at the SAME time.

In other words, trying to teach Conservatives how to cut UK taxes, is like offering to teach a Russian grandmother how to such vodka through a straw.

In 1979 the Conservative’s inherited from Labour a 32p lower income tax rate, the top rate of income tax was over 60%, and apart from bashing companies with a 50% Corporate Tax – any unearned income from investments etc was taxed over 90%.

And over 18-years, with Reganomics/Thatcherism, the view was that the more competitive tax rates were through the whole economy, the more the tax take would RISE as the economy grew.

But there has to be tax rates that while competitive/fair, have to pay the annual bills, pay down the National Debt and create private sector employment that brings in more tax revenues – and a responsible government has to put in place that tax balancing act.

What Corbyn/McDonnell are proposing is lower taxes from very low levels and a higher MW when small companies are yet to pay the recent hike for votes – while bashing all the tax paying private sector funding the economy – all while expecting the tax payer receiving public sector to significantly grow.

And so are offering total sums-can’t-add-up economic incompetence.

Therefore as to what Trump is offering, I would say that it is more Reaganomics/Thatcherism, than Corbynomics/McDonnellism.

Trump Says Lower Tax Rate on All Businesses to 15%
www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-09-28/trump-says-lower-tax-rate-on-all-businesses-to-15-

No tax would be assessed against individuals earning

• “There will be a major tax reduction,” Trump says in unveiling plan. “It’ll simplify the tax code. It’ll grow the American economy at a level that it hasn’t seen for decades”
• Tax would be zero for 31m households that now pay tax, according to Trump plan
• Highest individual rate would be 25% vs current top rate of 39.6%; number of rates consolidated from 7 to 4 -- 0%, 10%, 20% and 25%
• Plan would impose 10% tax on overseas profits, also would place immediate tax on overseas earnings -- that tax can now be deferred

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 11:35:18

'In other words, trying to teach Conservatives how to cut UK taxes, is like offering to teach a Russian grandmother how to such vodka through a straw.'

As usual, you have been taken in by the spin of the modernisers

"Embarrassment for 'tax-cutter' Cameron after it's revealed Coalition has raised our taxes by £255 each

Prime Minister David Cameron has claimed to be a 'tax cutting' politician
Reputation under fire after the revelation by the Institute for Fiscal Studies
It discovered tax rises totalled £64.3billion - including £14billion VAT hike
Millions are paying 40p tax for first time and inheritance tax increased too"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994282/Embarrassment-tax-cutter-Cameron-s-revealed-Coalition-raised-taxes-255-each.html

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 11:36:27

'As usual, you have been taken in by the spin of the modernisers'

Or maybe you are a moderniser on steroids on a mission to spin.

Isitmebut Tue 29-Sep-15 12:05:26

Yes dear.

You clearly missed the bit where Old McDonnell funny farm wants to tax the ying-yangs out of companies, whereas Trump wants to lower them.

FYI the Trump policy is a package to stimulate private sector growth, McDonnell's is to build up the fixed costs of the PUBLIC sector, relying on ever fewer private sector tax receipts (and less jobs with a huge MW) to fund them.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 12:09:35

I know that Trump is better than McDonnell, but McDonnell is a start and maybe he will eventually learn from Trump.

Isitmebut Tue 29-Sep-15 12:42:52

but McDonnell is a start and maybe he will eventually learn from Trump.

Yeah, but hopefully McDonnell don't lower the UK Capital Gains Tax (real millionaires tax) as far as socialist Brown did - while leaving the UK poor on the benefit/welfare/unemployed/homeless, scrapheap.

"Trump tax plan may help the rich more than Bush's"
www.cnbc.com/2015/09/28/trump-tax-plan-may-help-the-rich-more-than-bushs.html

emotionsecho Tue 29-Sep-15 12:49:57

If the tax rates posted by Isitmebut are what Trump is proposing it is hardly soaking 'the rich' is it claig?

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 12:59:40

emotions, I haven't read Isit's link yet because from experience those links are usually moderniser mush. But I will read it and see if it sounds truthful.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:01:40

'In an effort to transform himself into a billionaire populist, Donald Trump has presented a tax plan designed to appeal to conservatives and voters who are angry with the rich.'

We're off to a flying start. Only the Piers Gaveston could see something wrong with that.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:03:16

"The plan's main selling point is a zero-tax rate for individuals making less than $25,000 and couples making less than $50,000. While nearly half of Americans already pay no income taxes, Trump said the change would eliminate taxes for an additional 31 million Americans.

At the same time, he said the plan would take away deductions and "loopholes" that are mainly exploited by the wealthy. That includes eliminating the so-called "carried interest" loophole used by hedge-funders and private equity chiefs."

Now we're cruising at high altitude. Go the Donald!

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:04:48

"There will be people in the very upper echelons that won't be thrilled with this because we're taking away their deductions," Trump said.

I don't think Blair will leave the country and go to the US anytime soon under a Trump Presidency. That may not be such a good thing. Go The Donald!

emotionsecho Tue 29-Sep-15 13:08:41

I was alluding to the top rate of tax set at 25% claig.

I find it sightly ironic that Trump is trying to present himself as populist bearing in mind that he, his family and various companies have availed themselves of every possible tax avoidance scheme going in order to reduce what they pay.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:09:40

"The biggest benefit for the top 1 percent would be the proposed reduction of the highest income-tax rate, which Trump said he would cut from 39.6 percent to 25 percent. Bush's proposal is 28 percent.

And like Bush, Trump would also cut the tax rate for long-term capital gains — which flow mainly to the wealthy — to 20 percent, from the current 23.8 percent."

This sounds like modernisers and the Establishment trying to do Trump down, but it is perfectly reasonable to simplify and cut tax for the rich while simultaneously taking away their deductions.

"he said "everyone will do better" — including the wealthy — because it would improve growth"

That's fine.

The only thing I don't like is he is not hitting the charidees. Sounds like he is starting to go all politically correcr.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:11:06

'I find it sightly ironic that Trump is trying to present himself as populist bearing in mind that he, his family and various companies have availed themselves of every possible tax avoidance scheme going in order to reduce what they pay.'

emotions, nobody is perfect. It is a start. Go The Donald!

emotionsecho Tue 29-Sep-15 13:32:51

You missed out these bits claig:

Yet a close look at his proposal — which still lacks many basic details — suggests that similar to the Bush plan, the majority of the benefits would flow to the wealthy. In some ways, it could be even more generous.

The biggest benefit for the top 1 percent would be the proposed reduction of the highest income-tax rate, which Trump said he would cut from 39.6 percent to 25 percent.

Trump would also cut the tax rate for long-term capital gains — which flow mainly to the wealthy — to 20 percent, from the current 23.8 percent.

Trump said he would eliminate deductions and "loopholes" except for charity.

Eliminate the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, which Trump calls "double taxation." He said the latter tax forces many families "to go through hell," even though the current exemption is $5.43 million for individuals and nearly $11 million for couples. Therefore, it only applies to the wealthiest 0.12 percent of estates.

The top 1 percent of earners would reap the largest financial benefits from Bush's plan. While the middle 40 to 50 percent of taxpayers would see their after-tax incomes grow by 12.5 percent under that plan, the top 1 percent would see their incomes grow by 16.4 percent — the highest of any group, according to the Tax Foundation. Since Trump's plan calls for an even lower top tax rate on the wealthy, it could even better for those at the top.

I'm surmising that many of the Hedge Fund Billionaires fall into to the category of the wealthiest.

Corbyn and McDonell following a similar plan in the UK, best laugh I've had in ages.

Isitmebut Tue 29-Sep-15 13:37:19

Our claig is far bigger on several buzz words, than on policy detail, which is why thought the sun shone from Farage's rear end.

Similarly with Corbyn and Trump, claig is going for quantity of posts over real world factuality - its in her contract.

emotionsecho Tue 29-Sep-15 13:45:39

Indeed, Isitmebut, it is very difficult to take someone seriously when they perform so many u-turns in so short a space of time and can only argue in soundbites whilst decrying the use of soundbites.

The latching onto this mythical 'people vs the elite' at every opportunity irrespective of who is at the head of the bandwagon is amusing. A claig endorsement is usually the 'kiss of death'.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:50:13

'A claig endorsement is usually the 'kiss of death'.'

Shall we wait and see before casting judgement? If Trump wins, I will expect apologies from modernisers. I use buzzwords to create buzz and emphasise what is really at stake in the battle between the people and the elites.

claig Tue 29-Sep-15 13:53:08

'Our claig is far bigger on several buzz words, than on policy detail'

Jeb Bush, the Republican Establishment, the modrnisers, Fox News and the elite all said the same about Donald Trump, but he is way ahead of the pack among Repunlican candidates and I'm with Trump, who is with the people.

Isitmebut Tue 29-Sep-15 14:02:00

If Trump wins, I will expect apologies from modernisers.

Done, so may we now please have an apology each for all your predictions that went boobs up and the abuse we had over a few thousand posts; starting with your Farage in Westminster and landslide seats tally, as so far, the only 2 Westminster MP's UKIP have had, were SITTING TORY MPs lured to the dark side by promises of something.

Not one bit of home grown UKIP 'fruit' has reached Westminster, and your seats her halved, no other party has that baggage.

P.S. May I then have one for your prediction that the Tories would be wiped out in May 2015, and as Dave leading a coalition doing unpopular clean ups achieved a majority (not I or anyone else 'blue' ever thought could happen) - I expect a kiss on both butt cheeks. lol

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