Republican nominees Mr Trump vs Ms Fiorina – whats the odds on the latter?

(45 Posts)
Isitmebut Thu 17-Sep-15 10:38:18

In Australia they have a new PM with extensive private sector experience (an ex Merchant Banker no less) and pretty much the same is happening in America as the public still want very bright people looking to solve complex issues of the 21st century, but are looking to reject career politicians.

On that subject I saw on the news today that an ex U.S. corporate CEO Carly Fiorina did very well on her first debate appearance last night and that does not surprise me, as a few years back, especially around U.S. elections (that fascinate me) I used to have on the TV in the background the CNBC Business programme early morning show – which had good banter between the three hosts and great business/political coverage – and Ms Fiorina was a frequent guest on the show giving her views on all sorts of issues.

Due to Fiorina’s knowledge, views, humour, apparent charm and silky calm voice, I always used to stop what I was doing to listen to her, so I’m not surprised that she did well in that Republican bear pit yesterday as although she comes across as disarming - you felt that she didn’t get to be a CEO of a major company if she couldn’t bite the arse off a grizzly bear for breakfast if she WANTED to.

One to watch, and what if the next U.S. general election would be decided from two women candidates; either Republican Fiorina or Democrat Clinton?

Who won the GOP's debate? Hint:The one in the dress
www.cnbc.com/2015/09/17/who-won-the-gops-debate-hint-the-one-in-the-dress.html

CARLY FIORINA

Barely sliding into the main-stage competition, the ascendant Fiorina was the clear-cut victor of the evening, just as she was in her first debate. The former Hewlett Packard CEO was treated to the warmest and most consistence applause on Wednesday night. Moreover, she struck a perfect balance of sophistication and toughness when it came to handling questions about (and attacks from) Donald Trump.

claig Thu 17-Sep-15 22:27:26

That article is just an opinion piece nit a poll. It has Jeb Bush as a winner, but he was dire. Trump won and stood out against the machine politicians and Rubio was pretty good and is probably second to Trump and could win if Trump decides to call it a day and drop out.

A poll of Conservative Republican voters in Newsmax put Trump as winner. The Establishment are all anti Trump and the Establishment media are trying to knock him and boost the Establishment candidates and the other outsiders, but Republican voters love Trump. If he is serious and really wants it, he will get it because he is head and shoulders above the rest just like Farage is over here.

"Trump Is Runaway Debate Winner Newsmax Poll

The GOP presidential debate winner Wednesday night was dominant front-runner Donald Trump, a Newsmax Poll finds.

In early results from a poll of Newsmax TV viewers, the billionaire businessman logged 46 percent support, while former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina came in second, with 20 percent."

www.newsmax.com/Headline/newsmax-poll-second-republican/2015/09/17/id/691953/

claig Thu 17-Sep-15 22:34:22

Trump also had the courage to say that he wants vaccines spread out over a longer period due to what he said was the "epidemic" of autism. Of course, the Establishment machine politicians disagreed with him, apart from Rand Paul who said parents should be able to make a choice.

Rand Paul is sensible and not a spinner like most of the rest of the machine politicians, but he only has 1% backing so he hasn't got a chance.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 08:54:56

This was Fiorina's first outing vs Trump with his big honking personality, hair, tower and TV shows and lead, and her attention to detail impressed many, especially in global affairs - as that of someone who has run a global company and has followed global affairs for decade.

True Trump does business when overseas, but when asked Middle East questions he said something like 'OK I didn't know any of those names, who on the street would'? Well a potential President of the U.S. trying to rise above the other candidates, should.

Fiorina showed strong informed views on world affairs and exactly how SHE would both make America great again and keep Putin in his box.

The point is that Trump is like most of the politicians you admire, full of ra-ra-soundbites with very little substance.

Fiorina can impress around 50% of the U.S. electorate with her knowledge and think that the U.S. might be better run by a woman, the first woman president.

The fact Jeb Bush mentioned he'd think of putting the strong Thatcher on a U.S. money note (when he constitutionally can not) shows some are worried about the vote of U.S. women, whether for Republicans or Democrats.

It really is early days, but as I said in my OP one to watch with the prospect of a fascinating possibility, a long shot I'll grant you, of an all-women Presidential final.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 09:27:28

Trump said she ruined HP after the acquisition of Compaq and just this week they are sacking another 25,000 employees s they still haven't recovered and he said before that she was at Lucent and that was a disaster. He said he wouldn't have her manage any of his companies.

Her foreign policy was just jingoistic spin, but Trump said that with him in charge the world would be a safer friendlier place.

Trump doesn't need to know all the names, he will employ the best minds to carry out his policy. They know the names, he sets the policy.

'The point is that Trump is like most of the politicians you admire, full of ra-ra-soundbites with very little substance.'

No Trump is outside the Establishment which as he said means that he is not bought and paid for by contributions from lobbyists. He has been offered loads of money by lobbyists, he has turned all money down. He is independent and self-funding. He will get things done and do the right thing. Nobody owns Trump, he says the others are puppets.

'Fiorina can impress around 50% of the U.S. electorate with her knowledge '
It was spin. Did you watch it?

'The fact Jeb Bush mentioned he'd think of putting the strong Thatcher on a U.S. money note (when he constitutionally can not) shows some are worried about the vote of U.S. women, whether for Republicans or Democrats.'

No it doesn't. They were asked which woman would they put on the bill. Carson said his mother, some said Rosa Parks, and Trump said his daughter and then said he agrees with Rosa Parks, that is a good choice.

The Establishment are desperately trying to knock Trump's support in any way they can, such as boosting Fiorina against him, but Republican women support him more than the others. They are not being fooled by the Establishment tricks.

"Donald Trump's nonexistent problem with GOP women
...
A new CNN/ORC poll shows that Trump has increased his lead among Republican women, boosting his share to 33% of women voters, up from 20% a month ago.

The real estate tycoon has repeatedly defied the normal rules of politics, building his standing among almost every GOP demographic group and leaving his opponents scrambling for how to respond. Jeb Bush said that Trump couldn't insult his way to the White House, yet Trump's insult-heavy strategy appears to be working, as Bush sits at 9% in the polls."

edition.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/donald-trump-women/

When Trump wins, he will change politics worldwide, it will be the end of the "modernisers" and the return of true Conservatism.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 09:35:52

Oh and the modernisers' "climate catastrophe" con will lie in tatters when Trump takes over. All over the world, puppets will be forced to change their positions and the climate game will be up.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 09:50:14

Corbyn has finished off the "modernisers" in the Labour Party and returned it to true socialism. Soon we will see the same thing among the Tories, the end of the "modernisers" and the return of real Conservatism and Trump will be the spur that achieves it as puppets worldwide will dance to Trump's tune.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 10:05:20

Trump's tweet after the debates where the Establishment pretended that he had lost

Every poll done on debate last night, from Drudge to Newsmax to Time Magazine, had me winning in a landslide. #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

Go The Donald!

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 10:34:06

This is a nomination of nine or more process, but again with ‘the establishment’ issues, here in nearly every post and now America, but funny old world, entirely comfortable with Russia’s and Syria’s.

Trump sez quite a lot, the fact is when Fiorina’s Hewlett-Packard bought Compaq in 2002 it was the largest merger of its kind and had 150,000 employees. And although Fiorina was forced out in February 2005 due to ‘earnings/stock price issues’, when her predecessor was allowed to do what she wanted to do in rationalising two large companies, the merger was judged by most to be a success.

It has been since then, when the world moved from a mainly home computer to other smaller and more mobile devises, that bad Hewlett Packard decisions were made – and anyone with his business experience blaming someone who left running the company in 2005 for redundancies in 2015, is clearly grasping at straw hair to rubbish her record.

I heard Fiorina say to Trump that his empire had nearly gone bankrupt four times.

And of course the reason these corporate records are coming up, is that Americans are more savvy to the potential problems of National Debt, especially the Republican Party and their voters - who have seen the Democrats (Labour’s equivalent) run up $18.4 trillion of national debt, despite their strong economy (now back to pre crash levels) - and America has had a huge financial windfall from their energy production e.g. scale gas and oil.
www.usdebtclock.org/

God only knows what their debt would be without those tax receipts and still importing far more expensive gas and oil from abroad, taking more money out of peoples pockets.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 10:58:37

'but again with ‘the establishment’ issues'

Just like everyone else apart from modernisers like you, and just like Farage

"Donald Trump’s Appeal? G.O.P. Is Puzzled, but His Fans Aren’t
...
People like him, clamor for him, must see him. Describing for an audience in Las Vegas how demand to see him at a recent event was so high, he said the venue managers had panicked and called, “begging us not to be there.”
...
Mr. Trump is not, as many Republicans have suggested, merely a renegade agitator who sneaked up on the party establishment and threatens to spoil its plans for a tidy, civil primary. Rather, he has become the new starring attraction for the restless, conservative-minded voters who think the political process is in need of disruption.

Some align themselves with the Tea Party movement. Others call themselves independents or Republicans who are just fed up. The praise they heap on Mr. Trump — “He speaks the truth,” “He’s fearless,” “He’s not politically correct” — echoes the words conservatives have used to describe others, like Sarah Palin and Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who have stirred their passions before.

“I think he means what he says,” said Kristi Eglody, 63, a retired school counselor from Manchester. “He loves America, and he wants it to be better. And that’s what I love about him.”

www.nytimes.com/2015/07/18/us/politics/donald-trumps-complicated-charisma-fills-void-in-republican-politics.html

Donald Trump vs. the Republican establishment. Not a fair fight
...
But if he is nominated, at least the so-called base will have the satisfaction of testing its most cherished belief: that a "real conservative," if nominated, will crush opponents in a way that the serial compromisers of the past could never have dreamed."

www.cbc.ca/news/world/donald-trump-vs-the-republican-establishment-not-a-fair-fight-1.3228167

Real conservatism is back, it is the end of the modernisers, the end of the climate change con.

"Could THIS be the “Trump-slayer” the GOP establishment’s hoping for?
...
While political outsider Donald Trump continues to trounce the other 16 candidates in early GOP presidential polls, many in the so-called “establishment” have been nervously wringing their hands. At first, they hoped Trump would just go away, after a brief flash-in-the-pan popularity. But as he continues to defy all expectations — and laws of gravity — establishment types are realizing they need an alternative who can actually pose a challenge to Trump.

While Jeb Bush, the original establishment favorite, has disappointed in both his debate performance and the polls, another candidate is quietly building momentum and threatening to rob Bush of his mantle of establishment favorite."

allenbwest.com/2015/08/could-this-be-the-trump-slayer-the-gop-establishments-hoping-for/

The Establishment is desperate to stop him

"The desperate plots to destroy Donald Trump: Why the GOP establishment is struggling to make this clown irrelevant

Long assumed a flash in the pan, Donald Trump is starting to make Republican insiders sweat"

www.salon.com/2015/09/16/the_desperate_plots_to_destroy_donald_trump_why_the_gop_establishment_is_struggling_to_clown_irrelevant/

Oh and the bad news for you and the warmongers is that Trump thinks he will get along with Putin, so there won't be a war. Trump wouldn't help Isis by bombing Assad.

"On Putin and Assad, America Finally Sees the Kinder, Gentler Trump
...
Asked directly whether Trump would dialogue with Putin, he said yes. “I would talk to him. I would get along with him. I believe — and I may be wrong, in which case I’d probably have to take a different path, but I would get along with a lot of the world leaders that this country is not getting along with,” Trump responded. “I will get along, I think, with Putin.”

Trump also balked at the idea of the United States having any role to play in Syria at all. “You look at what’s going on with ISIS in there, now think of this: we’re fighting ISIS. ISIS wants to fight Syria. Why are we fighting ISIS in Syria? Let them fight each other and pick up the remnants,” he stated.

Later in the debate, when the topic of Syria reared its head once more, Trump asserted that he would have never “drawn the [red] line” that President Obama had with Assad: do not use chemical weapons, or there will be unspecified consequences. Those consequences never materialized, and now reports indicate both Assad and Islamic State elements are using chemical weapons in Syria.

There was none of the traditional macho bluster to this answer, towards Assad or Putin. Trump apparently decided to save his tougher stance for more dangerous rivals than Putin, like Sen. Rand Paul.

The irony in this, of course, being that the Kentucky Senator sounded a lot more like Trump on the Syria issue than anyone else. “Had we bombed Assad at the time, like President Obama wanted, and like Hillary Clinton wanted and many Republicans wanted, I think ISIS would be in Damascus today,” Sen. Paul warned of any plan to intervene in Syria before the expansion of ISIS that has largely disabled Assad’s army. Of Putin, Sen. Paul said: “Carly Fiorina also said we’re not going to talk with Putin. Well, think if Reagan had said that during the Cold War? We continued to talk with the Russians throughout the Cold War, which is much more significant than where we are now.”

www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/17/on-putin-and-assad-america-finally-sees-the-kinder-gentler-trump/

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 10:58:47

As a 60-year old Conservative voter I understand Conservative core policies as;

- The State as large/expensive as it needs to be, not a taxpayer funded conduit to 'create' unsustainable jobs/growth at the first major recession.

- Taxes as high as they need to be, allowing the economy/businesses/citizens to have choices how their own money is spent.

- A basic understanding that it is the Private Sector pays for the Public Sector, and that a political party needs to ensure UK businesses have what they need to grow, but pay enough taxes to support the economy - so in a balanced, not penal way.

- Citizens should have the best education the State can afford and given a life chance hand up via a strong economy and jobs, not try keep them on hand outs.

- Belong to an EU more like the original 'common market' rather than the one-size-fits-all superstate it is heading for.

- Defend the country with a nuclear deterrent and a well equipped armed forces we need to do what needs to be done.

Now claig I see very little change in those CORE Conservative values under Cameron, and why critics like you worry more about Cameron having a little wind turbine on his chimney, beats the shit outame - unless have another agenda.

Re Trump is you have not worked out that he is a Republican on right wing steroids more akin the the Republican Tea Party movement, rather than the average Republican - you don't have a clue what a 'modernizer' really is.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 11:05:00

claig ... so in your own words, do you think Trumps views on immigration i.e. Mexico and building a huge wall and racist, rapists, comments etc, are right?

Is that immigration policy (and anti gay policies within the movement) what first attracted you to UKIP/Farage????

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:08:42

'As a 60-year old Conservative voter I understand Conservative core policies as'

You're not a real Conservative, you're a 60 year old moderniser.

Trump is a real conservative and so is Farage, that's why you don't like them.

'why critics like you worry more about Cameron having a little wind turbine on his chimney, beats the shit out of me - unless have another agenda.'

Because I have a real conservative agenda just like the millions of real Republicans (bot the Establishment ones) who flock to Trump's meetings and have made him trounce the Establishment candidates. That "beats the shit" out of you because you are a moderniser, not a conservative.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:12:45

'so in your own words, do you think Trumps views on immigration i.e. Mexico and building a huge wall and racist, rapists, comments etc, are right?'

I think he has gone too far on that but I agree with him on building a wall, controlling US borders and expelling illegal immigrant ganag members and illegal immigrant people with prison sentences.

'Is that immigration policy (and anti gay policies within the movement) what first attracted you to UKIP/Farage????'

No, I'm a real conservative not a moderniser like you, that's why I and 4 million others support Farage and not Cameron. I'm against what Cameron called "the green crap", I don't like stunts about hugging hoodies and hugging huskies and rooftop wind turbines because I am a conservative.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:14:12

'you don't have a clue what a 'modernizer' really is.'

Of course I know what a moderniser is - it is you, Blair, Mandelson and Cameron. I am a real conservative, that is why I support Farage.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 11:25:13

No, I'm a real conservative not a moderniser like you,

And I'm really a card carrying socialist.

Oh you silly little Russian mouthpiece trying to promote any western anarchy as guess, what Trump says is U.S. OUT of Syria, Fiorina says confront Putin - tell me IN YOUR OWN WORDS what core Conservative values, on top of my list which you clearly stand for as you try and tell us you voted Tory until 2010 (guffaw), are missing under Cameron?

You would prefer NO firm domestic UK domestic policies under Farage, a new Labour leader married to a person born a Mexican while promoting Trump who is anti Mexican, rather than Cameron for a poxy wind turbine - you are either a complete joke or needing to read out prepared pro Russian policies from some state chat room, which is it?

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:29:32

Here is Farage on Cameron and how Cameron, like you, is not a real conservative

“People that have left David Cameron since 2010 have left him because he’s covered the country in wind turbines, he’s slashed our defences, he’s overseen massive rises in immigration.”

In a swipe at the Prime Minister, he added: “I’m not a Conservative but if I was a Conservative I would like to have a leader who was actually a Conservative and that perhaps has been part of their problem.”

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574736/Nigel-Farage-Westminister-elite-Ukip-cause-election-shock

If Cameron had been a real conservative, then he would never have lost 20% of real conservative voters to UKIP in a time when the economy was recovering and Labour were a politically correct mess, but Cameron is almost as politically correct as Labour, that is why real conservatives had enough, just as they are doing in America and abandoning Establishment conservatives (i.e not real ones) like Jeb Bush and going to someone who shares their values, a real conservative, The Donald.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 11:32:34

P.S. Just how as the whole "establishment" changed so much from 2010 (as voted Conservative to 2005)?

In your own words please, as that tends to give us the truth, unfortunately for you.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:33:17

'And I'm really a card carrying socialist.'

Finally you admit it. I'm not surprised, you share their modernising views.

'tell me IN YOUR OWN WORDS what core Conservative values, on top of my list which you clearly stand for as you try and tell us you voted Tory until 2010 (guffaw), are missing under Cameron?'

If you don't know, then you are not a conservative, you are a 60 year old moderniser.

'you are either a complete joke or needing to read out prepared pro Russian policies from some state chat room, which is it?'

No, I'm a real conservative, not a moderniser like you. I'm with the Republican Anerican majority, I'm with Trump (and Farage), you're with the Establishment modernisers (a card-carrying socialist, in your own words).

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:35:06

'P.S. Just how as the whole "establishment" changed so much from 2010 (as voted Conservative to 2005)?'

Can you express yourself in English as opposed to Soviet card-carrying socailist then I can reply to your search for knowledge?

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 11:40:16

Farage (not you) who tried to be a Conservative MP 8 times and failed says that Cameron allowed in immigration, but then says while we remain in the EU, we have no choice.

Farage (not you) says our defences have been slashed, when for decades they have never been better equipped, Cameron alone stands 100% behind renewing Trident and the reduction in number has been due to the under equipped but over spent defence mess Labour left.
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/374669/Labour-over-spending-leaves-74-billion-defence-deficit

So as you apparently can think for yourself, if thats all you have got on core Tory values, welcome back to the Conservative fold comrade, we'll expect your vote next time.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:42:01

I don't suppose you read real Conservatives like Archbishop Cranmer or Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail, you probably study the book "Tony Blair: The Moderniser" to form your ideas.

"Heffer: Cameron is 'not a conviction Conservative'

Writing in his new megablog RightMinds, Simon Heffer articulates succinctly what many of us already know."

archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/heffer-cameron-is-not-conviction.html

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 11:44:28

'welcome back to the Conservative fold comrade, we'll expect your vote next time.'

No chance, card-carrying socialist moderniser, I'm in the real conservative fold with Trump and Farage, I'm not a moderniser, I don't have a rooftop wind turbine like you or Cameron.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 11:55:25

Then did you get special 'red card' instructions to so strongly promote the Tory and UKIP free market policies anti-Christ, Corbyn?

Now we get the reams of quotes from other people; if as an ex Tory YOU cannot look at my basic list of Tory core values and tell me what has changed, I have no interest reading others probably talking about NON core Tory values - when every party has to adapt to the times/economic conditions.

claig Fri 18-Sep-15 12:01:45

'Then did you get special 'red card' instructions to so strongly promote the Tory and UKIP free market policies anti-Christ, Corbyn?'

What are you trying to express? Where did you learn your English, if it can be charitably called that? Is this "moderniser" English? I prefer traditioanl English, real conservative English because I don't talk "moderniser" like you. I'm not fluent in Blair and Cameron, I prefer straight-talking Trump and Farage.

'I have no interest reading others probably talking about NON core Tory values - when every party has to adapt to the times/economic conditions.'

Of course you haven't, because you have no interest in the truth. That goes without saying as we have already established that you are a moderniser.

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