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On becoming Mary Poppins... Toddler and newborn support thread #2

(883 Posts)
ThePinkNinja Thu 08-Nov-12 09:38:53

A place to continue the complaining conversation about the hair pulling days and sleepless nights fun and frolics of life with a toddler and newborn

WhoahThereCrazyHorse Mon 26-Nov-12 21:07:51

It's really comforting to know that everyone else is having such a challenging time too!

My next question - what do everyone's babies do in the evening? I've been trying to get ds into a bath/bed routine in the vain hope of getting some evening back, but it's failing spectacularly. What time do yours go down for the night?

Thanks all x

chezziejo Mon 26-Nov-12 21:32:36

I'm with you crazy about the punishments into next day but will cross that bridge tomorrow when I come to it with dp. Mind we have plenty on tomorrow without worrying too much about it so hopefully a better day. I just wish I could get past this thing where I feel I have destroyed his life. Chances are he won't even remember this period in his life. Just want my lovely little boy back to go with his lovely little sister. She gets lest a lot to give so much reassurance but fortunately she's so far been a placid baby. Want to snuggle all night and feed but not crying really.

Oh well tomorrow's another day.

AngelDog Mon 26-Nov-12 22:58:53

Whoa, DS goes to sleep anytime between 9pm and 2am, although it isn't really 'bedtime' as it's just when I can get myself together to go to bed - he's asleep for the rest of the evening in the sling.

According to the sleep books I've read*, most babies have a bedtime which is very late at night (often 10pm into the small hours) until about 3 months when a much earlier bedtime naturally develops. Colicky / 'difficult' babies may develop an earlier bedtime at a slightly older age - maybe 4 months.

On the hitting (and similar behaviours), what's worked well for us is redirection. So as well as explaining 'hitting hurts', we take DS's hand and showing himhow to touch gently, or say, "Hitting hurts - but you can hit the ground/wall," etc and encourage them to do the action on something that's less of a problem. Hitting something else has worked best recently as our hitting issues have been about frustration.

*There were many. At least 15. DS was a very difficult sleeper (still isn't great) and I spent most of his first 12 months either reading books about baby sleep or surfing the web about baby sleep. hmm

WhoahThereCrazyHorse Tue 27-Nov-12 00:48:37

Angel I could kiss you for that piece of knowledge! I've been trying for bed time a lot earlier and tearing my hair out that it doesn't work. I've had many a 'dd was never this bad' conversation with DH when I guess the reality is that as rookie parents we didn't even probably think to introduce a bedtime until much later.

Are there any sleep books you think are worth a read?

crazypaving Tue 27-Nov-12 10:37:55

HELP ME!!!!! It's my birthday, the car won't start, it's pissing with rain and we're stuck at home waiting for the RAC - THREE HOURS!!!



EarnestDullard Tue 27-Nov-12 10:39:38

DD2 goes to bed between 10pm and midnight; last night she went down at about 11.30pm and slept till nearly 6am! Until recently she'd wake at about 3am every morning so I'm hoping this is the start of things to come. I figure sleeping longer stretches is a start, and we'll think about an earlier bedtime later.

Had a slightly hellish morning. Tried really, really hard to get ready and organised in time to go to family play session at our local library. Just managed, but got outside with DD1 in pushchair and baby in sling and realised that a) it was raining and b) I needed a hand to support DD2's head and couldn't push the pushchair one-handed. And the session gets full really quickly so we didn't have time to get the double pushchair sorted or let DD1 walk (she's sloooow!). So we gave up, and DD2 cried, then I cried. Felt really crap. We're ok now I'm eating lots of chocolate though.

WhoahThereCrazyHorse Wed 28-Nov-12 16:57:44

Earnest thanks for the info - ds went to bed at 10 last night which was much more successful. Sorry you had such a shite day yesterday - has today been any better?

AngelDog Wed 28-Nov-12 19:00:43

My pleasure, Woah.

The books I found helpful are:
No Cry Sleep Solution (not very good at newborns or if your 3 m.o. just Does Not Sleep, but good at changing sleep associations for 4 months+)
The Wonder Weeks - not about sleep but good for knowing when developmental leaps mess with it. But the website does that for free.
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child - this is badly organised, poorly written and patronising in tone. I violently disagree with his methods (cry it out with no parental contact for an unlimited time - from 3 months old shock sad). However, it's really good on naps and gives a good idea of what's the normal range of behaviour.

I also love the sleep advice on the AskMoxie blog, as she gets comments from people across the range of the various parenting approaches and is very non-prescriptive. Her stuff on who cry to release tension vs crying to increase tension is really, really helpful.

AngelDog Wed 28-Nov-12 19:02:06

Sorry for dodgy links and rubbish layout there.

AngelDog Wed 28-Nov-12 20:11:14

crazy, are you all still alive? Happy birthday for yesterday. smile

Anyone else's DH unable to get their baby to sleep? I know it's normal but it's annoying when DS2 needs to go to sleep at the same time as DS1 and I've promised DS1 I'll bf him. Poor DS2 was howling for ages with DH at bedtime.

I made a fantastic discovery today. Sometimes DS2 struggles to go to sleep even in the sling, but if I go on an outside walk he'll generally drop off. It's not always convenient though eg in the middle of giving DS1 lunch. I tried putting on my coat and buttoning it around him like I do when we go out, then bounced indoors. He went off really easily. grin If it works consistently it would help avoid those times when DS2 is wailing while I yell at DS1 because he's not being co-operative enough while I try to wrestle his outdoor clothes on.

crazypaving Wed 28-Nov-12 21:05:23

Hi Angel thanks for thinking of me! Had the crappest couple of days...will come back when I'm better company! That may be next week when my childminder is back in action........

chezziejo Thu 29-Nov-12 09:32:04

Happy birthday for the other day crazy

Getting quite fed up with ds and his hitting and not tantrums but he's being mardy for lack of a better word and has this fake high pitched cry that is awful. Picking battles carefully like insisting teeth have to be cleaned which he screams about it but can't let that go. Am I cruel? Still going with the reassurance and lots of attention but finding it so hard now when he blanks me like he hates me. sad baby has a cold and has lost 8oz and is not feeding properly. Falling asleep on boob but have saline drops from dr now so hopefully that will help. Sorry for the moan, on the plus side mil has now arrived from a 5 hr trip and happily hoovering up, bless her.
Hope every one else is surviving and getting on ok.

Goldrill Fri 30-Nov-12 13:04:21

Ooh - wonderful thread - can I join too please? DD2 is 6 weeks today and DD1 turned 2 last week. DP has been off work for 6 weeks and goes back on monday and I am utterly terrified.

I'm very lucky as DD1 is in nursery 2 days and then spends a day with my parents, and then they will come over and help on one of the other days to start off with - so really I have very little time with the two together on my own to do, but I am still very worried!

I feel a bit of a wuss tbh - most people in the world who have kids will have more than one, so it can't really be as hard as I'm finding it, surely - I must be doing something wrong here? DD1 is also extremely well behaved and has not had too big a reaction to the baby until this week, and even then it's mild compared with what some people have to deal with, but I veer wildly between feeling horribly guilty at the lack of time I have for her, to really looking forward to her going to nursery.

I was going to say that I wish someone had warned me it would be this difficult - but I don't think I would really have got it if they had done! I am off to try and sleep now as had only 20 minute stretches up to 5am as DD2 was Not In The Mood for sleep, and for the first time DP has taken her out so I can try and catch up. I should have gone to bed an hour ago, but reading this has cheered me up no end so it is worth it - I am so glad it's not just me, and reading other peoples' coping methods is bloody brilliant.

EarnestDullard Fri 30-Nov-12 13:24:28

Sorry I missed your post CrazyHorse; things have been better since that nightmareish morning. Although in my stressed/upsetness I blubbed to DD1, who was crying that she wanted to go to the library, that "maybe one day you'll have a good Mum, but I'm a rubbish Mum so we can't go" blush Awful, awful parenting. So now whenever I tell her off or she thinks I'm upset she says "but you're a good Mummy, you're a good Mummy sad Bless her.

Goldrill you're doing nothing wrong, it really is hard. And I'm lucky to have quite an easy-going DD1 too (as far as the baby goes anyway; we still get the odd terrible-twos-style meltdown). She's 2.9yo and is good at playing independently, which is a real blessing right now. I still find it so difficult at times though; trying to plan anything is a nightmare, getting anywhere takes about 3 times as long as it should. Just getting everyone washed, dressed and fed in the morning is a logistical nightmare, especially when I've been up at least once in the night and I just want to sleeeeeeep.

My only tactic is taking it one day at a time. Sometimes one hour at a time grin Then the days slide into weeks and eventually it does get easier, little by little.

HelloBear Fri 30-Nov-12 15:57:27

What a great thread!

DD is 2years 4 months, DS 4 weeks. And heck it is HARD work!!! But feel a lot better to read others going through the same problems as me and it is not just that I am totally useless and should never have had children!

Oh and the guilt, if feeling guilty was an olympic sport I am sure I would have won a number of gold medles for team GB. Guilty that I don't play with DD, guilty I dont talk to DS as much as I did to DD, guilty that I left DS in wet nappy for too long, etc, etc, etc.

But there are lovely moments alos smile

DS for now

HelloBear Fri 30-Nov-12 15:58:19

Oh and I have not done any christmas shopping, how, how, how am I going to do it????

chezziejo Sat 01-Dec-12 10:36:32

Get on amazon I would say.

Things not going great here either. Dd now 12 days old and in hospital. Stopwd feeding and was losing too much weight. Got bronchiolitis and Is on oxygen and being fed by ng tube at mo. feel like such a failure and so sad for her.

EMS23 Sat 01-Dec-12 10:50:09

chezziejo - best wishes for your DD, I hope she gets better really quickly & you have RL support.

My DD's are good, DD1 is sleeping a bit better which makes the days easier but between the two of them, I'm not getting a lot of sleep.

DH has decided now is the time to tackle DD1's reliance on her dummy. I'm not so sure, especially as he's going away for 3 days next week so not great timing for me to be left with a miserable 2 yr old!

DD2 is 11 weeks today, can't believe how fast it's gone and yet, at times, so painfully slowly! She's been going down at 8pm for 1.5 weeks now and it's lovely to have our evenings back, it makes such a difference to my state of mind and my DH copes a lot better when we get some time together. Mind you, I'm normally asleep by 9.30pm!
She's still waking for night feeds, at best one but generally 2. I'm wondering what we could do to encourage her to sleep through.
DD1 had health issues so we never implemented routines and she found her own, happily sleeping through by 5 months. I think I need to trust DD2 to do the same.

Hope everyone else is doing ok and new babies are settling well.

crazypaving Sat 01-Dec-12 13:13:48

Welcome hellobear and goldrill!

chezzie Oh god poor you, I hope DD gets better really quickly and you're ok. You are SO not a failure! Don't beat yourself up, this happens to plenty of babies. Please take heart, she will be fine I'm sure.

EMS sorry but I had to grin at your DH's suggestion. I suggest you tell him now is not a good time! New baby and him going away? I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole! Sorry if I sound a bit is entirely up to you of course...! And you give me hope with tales of your DD2 going down in the evenings a bit earlier. DS2 is 8 weeks now and we're still waiting. Really hope things are better by Christmas, although we're away for 2 nights which will no doubt send everything up the spout... Also waking for 2 feeds usually and sometimes 1. For me this is fab as DS1 was a nightmare at night until over a year, so I'm loving all the sleep!!!

Having a bit of a problem with DS2's feeding. Thinking I should've had his tongue tie (posterior) cut at the beginning after all. He will feed until my let-down starts, and then completely refuse. It's ok at night hmm as he's all sleepy and hunger gets the better of him, but he's only fed ONCE in teh day for the last 3 days confused I'm really worried, and at his 8wk check he'd dropped from 75th to 50th centile. Doctor wants to see us back in 2 weeks and if no improvement she'll refer him to the tongue tie clinic. Damn it, the older they get the more miserable the cut is I imagine. He seems fine in himself at least, apart from the whole feeding refusal. I do have a fire-hydrant let-down, poor lamb.

Also DS2 has pectus excavatum. She doesn't think it's anything more than cosmetic but it still makes me feel a bit sad Hope it is ok, she's going to let us know when we're back in 2wks. Funny, went to the 8wk check with no concerns, and now look!!

My 3 weeks of hell are OVER!!! Childminder back on Monday!! These have been teh slowest 3 weeks of my life. Ever. And I've had some unbelievable low points (my birthday stands out! - would you believe I actually had to poo with DS2 in the sling and DS1 sitting on my lap? blush oh the horror, the indignity, and what a birthday...) and a few lovely moments. At the moment DS2 is sporting a lovely mark on his forehead from where DS1 whacked him with a toy sad When is DS1 going to accept DS2?

Hope everyone else is surviving...

AngelDog Sat 01-Dec-12 18:46:58

You poor thing, chezzie - hope your DD gets better soon.

crazy, I'd definitely push for the tongue tie to be sorted. DS2 has had his snipped, and feeding is only just starting to improve 2.5 weeks later. We still have a way to go though.

Nearly 3 y.o. DS1 had his moderate tongue tie and lip tie revised on Thursday. It was pretty traumatic - mainly because I wasn't allowed in the room while they did it, and he's never been left alone with anyone other than DH, me or his grandmothers for even a minute. The follow-up physio has been very distressing for him too - we have to stretch it 3x a day.

He's been needing lots of TLC so everything else is going to rack and ruin. It took 24 hours to empty one potty, and I've still not cleaned where DS2 was sick last night. blush DH took DS out this morning but DS2 needed feeding, changing and getting to sleep so all I managed was a shower and putting half a load of washing out to dry.

EMS, I think 2 night feeds at 11 weeks is incredible. Mind you, DS1 slept through twice at 3 months, then didn't again till 13 months, and has never regularly slept through at nearly 3 years. Whatever they're doing now, it usually goes to pot in the 4 month sleep regression so it's probably not worth too much effort now. Various sleep books say the number of night feeds usually goes up again as they start going to bed earlier, as they're in bed for longer.

WhoahThereCrazyHorse Sat 01-Dec-12 19:30:17

chezzie poor you, I hope dd is on the mend sad

We have had a minor breakthrough in working out that ds goes from fine to overtired in a nanosecond and things rapidly go to pot from that point onwards!! He also roots furiously when tired - I've been thinking he's hungry and trying to get him to feed (sometimes basically forcing a bottle down him blush ) when in fact a dummy at that point works wonders in calming him down. The result of this has discovery has been 2 days of calm breastfeeding and MUCH less screaming! If only he'd come with a manual.

Question - what are your babies doing between 7ish and whatever time they go down for the night? By that point in the day ds won't settle anywhere but on me really, and after an afternoon or day of slinging him I just want to sit on my arse! Which is exactly what I'm doing now with him asleep on my chest. Does anyone manage this differently?

crazy hooray for the childminder's return!! My days when dd is at nursery are lovely, she's been off all week with a chest infection and I know how you feel!

Angel thanks very much for the recommendations and links - much appreciated.

Keep it up everyone!

crazypaving Sat 01-Dec-12 19:52:36

CrazyHorse that sounds pretty much like my evenings. Although often he will settle on DH, provided he does lots of bouncing and shushing!

Ok so baby will only feed from left boob now. When I've thought he's refusing to feed he is in fact simply refusing the right side. If I offer the left he'll feed like a monster. I tried holding him on the right in football hold, which didn't work, and then copying the left side hold as closely as possible, which worked, but was bloody uncomfortable for me! Why is he refusing the right suddenly???

ThePinkNinja Mon 03-Dec-12 13:30:39

Hello everyone smile
I've been missing for what feels like ages....

The three weeks after ds1 caught hand foot mouth at childminder were hell and then after .....

Grrr ds1 just woke from his 30 minute sad nap ....

Guess I'll have to try again later

Madness here. But hope you are all doing well x

EMS23 Mon 03-Dec-12 19:29:02

AngelDog I hope your DC's are feeling better now.

Re the 2 night feeds - my DD is formula fed so 2 feels like a lot but I suppose it's not too terrible.
DD1 was an awful awful sleeper until 11 weeks when she was prescribed Nutramigen and slept 8 straight hours that first night!
So DD2, who appears to have no such CMP intolerance, is 'only' doing 4 hour stretches and it seems rubbish in comparison!

My DH is away for work this week so my mum has come to stay and is sending me off for a massage, manicure and pedicure tomorrow while DD1 is at nursery. I love my mum!!!

crazypaving Tue 04-Dec-12 11:56:05

argh when does everything stop being a massive struggle just for survival and start being perhaps enjoyable? will it ever be enjoyable??

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