On becoming Mary Poppins... Toddler and newborn support thread #2

[ThePinkNinja]

A place to continue the complaining conversation about the hair pulling days and sleepless nights fun and frolics of life with a toddler and newborn

[NiceCupOfTeaAndASitDown]

Not having a good day. Every time I put DD down she screams but if I pick her up DS is climbing on the furniture turning lights on and off and pulling books off the shelves. Please tell me it gets better! How's everyone else doing today?

[crazypaving]

Hi CupOfTea sorry you've had a crap day - they do tend to both kick off on the same day, don't they? Tomorrow will be a new day! Everyone says it gets better...they can't all be lying, right?! Just who knows when or how...

I've had a lovely day (sorry), DH had day off, both children being angelic (of course ), in fact DS2 has spent almost all day asleep. Typical, the last 2 days he's spent mostly awake and unhappy. I am terrified that tonight we will get no sleep as a result...eek! Always expect the worst, so you can be pleasantly surprised is my motto Although at this stage every day and night is so different, you never quite know what to expect.

[AngelDog]

Ugh, that sounds like hard work, CupofTea. Do you have a sling?

I love the Wonder Weeks too - haven't read most of the book yet but consider myself an expert on when the leaps are. It really does help you believe things are only a phase.

I went to the hospital to get DS2's tongue tie snipped today. There were loads of new (first time) mums there. Being around first timers makes me feel really competent, capable and in control. Reality is rather different though!

DS2 is having long sleeps but generally not going to bed till really late - last night was 2.30am.

[Margie32]

Hello everyone,

Can I please join you? DS1 is 22 months and DS2 is due in 3 weeks. I'm not particularly worried about dealing with a newborn but I'm really worried about DS1's reaction...the terrible twos are in full swing already and I can only imagine that a new baby is going to make things worse.

Do you think there's anything we can do to prepare DS1 for the new arrival, or will the reality not hit him until it actually happens? Obviously we've talked to him about the baby and tried to get him excited and involved, but I'm not sure there's anything else we can do at this stage...?

[NiceCupOfTeaAndASitDown]

Hi Margie, if you haven't already I'd thoroughly recommend getting a baby doll for DS to play with, wash, cuddle etc. I'm sure that's helped us with the transition and for DS to learn how to be gentle.

Angel yes I have a sling, which one am I supposed to put in it? ;-)

DD is a little treasure if she's being held and has complete access to a boob so she's been in the sling for the last 2 days.

Unfortunately I have become shouty mum as every time I sit down to feed her DS literally goes from doing one thing he shouldn't be doing (climbing on the furniture, switching the lamp on and off and pulling my books off shelves) to another (playing with light switches, plug sockets, the play station) - to prevent me scaring both of them by shouting at him I've put him in the cot with some books. I don't feel on top of things very much at the moment. I was doing so well last week, I don't know what's changed :(

[NiceCupOfTeaAndASitDown]

Is anyone else tandem feeding? I'm wondering if he'd behave better if I fed him at the same time.. I just can't stand the feeling and he fidgets so much..

[DreamingOfPeace]

Yes, I tandem fed a lot with my twins. Tbh I'm not a huge fan, now they're bigger I'm constantly defending them from each other and its not the most comfortable for any of us. I stopped feeding my eldest at 15 months though when it got too painful to continue. I feed individually mostly now, but when they were little I just fed them on the move, sat on floor with DD reading, following her round the house. Up to the age where boys too distractable to feed in a busy environment...

I'm tired , its relentless atm here and DD pushing boundaries

[AngelDog]

I tandem but haven't often fed both together as both DSs have had latch issues so it's too hard to get them both on comfortably. I usually do one side for DS2, one for DS1, repeat - but DS is 2.10 so easier to reason with. I often give him a snack or read to him while DS2 feeds. Other suggestions I've heard are special toys or treasure basket which only come out at feeding time. I think probably redirection would work better than saying no - your cot idea was good.

It's hard how much it changes day to day (and hour to hour!) and how in control (or otherwise) you feel.

Can you feed in your sling, CupOf? If so, is there a secret - I'm struggling to manage it with mine.

Margie, we worked hard on helping DS1 still feel like our baby. So we have a baby baby and a toddler baby. We also talked a lot about the things babies can't do (hold things, talk, walk, eat solid food, wake at night) so he would have realistic expectations. He was worried about DS2 needing lots of cuddles all the time so we played with DS1's soft toys in the sling and made a big deal about how I'd have my hands free to play with DS1.

I think it also helps not to expect them to be excited or pleased with the new arrival, and to let them know it's okay to feel upset about it. I've heard it likened to your husband bringing home a new wife one day - not only do they spend all their time cuddling in front of you, you're even supposed to like her and be nice to her.

[Margie32]

Nice and Angel, thanks so much for the tips. I particularly like the husband bringing home a new wife analogy - I suppose we want DS1 to be as excited about the baby as we are, but that's applying adult logic to a toddler! I guess one of the best things I can do is just talk to DS1 about everything that's happening and get him to tell me how he's feeling...

[AngelDog]

Another helpful tip I had from someone here was to remember that with DC2, you know what you're doing and know what to expect to a great extent, even if DC2 is quite different from DC1. But for your toddler, it's all completely new - they didn't even have the benefit of knowing what babies are like, or going to anenatal classes etc. So they're likely to be experiencing even more of the shellshock you felt after DC1 was born.

We've talked a lot about 'like you did'. DS2 will need lots of milk - like you did. (Maybe show him a photo of himself as a baby). DS2 will probably need to sleep in the sling - like you did (show him photo). I think it's also helped him understand that DS2 won't stay the same as he is forever - that he won't keep on needing so much of my time and attention once he's a bit bigger.

Ha - just realised in my post above I said babies couldn't wake lots at night - not quite what I meant

[Loopyhasanotherbean]

can i join in too please? DS1 24 months ish, DS2 10 weeks (exactly 22 months age gap). Recognise a couple of names here (waves to munx and dream)

DS1 was lovely to begin with but last 2-3 weeks quite frankly he has either been a dream child or a little shit and he can switch between the two in a millisecond without any visible reason for the change.

When he is in a good mood, he will kiss and cuddle DS2, and even tries to pick him up if he is crying and will shhh him and rock him if he is in the swing/crib/moses/car seat.

When he is in a bad mood, he will throw things across the room, or hit me or DS2 (he's hit him 3 times in the last week - last Friday was the first time, not hard thankfully and just with his hand rather than a heavy object and there was no reaction from DS2 so it can't have hurt) but still not behaviour that is acceptable! Accompanied by lots of screeching and climbing things he knows he shouldn't climb/messing with buttons he knows he shouldn't mess with, often saying Mommy just before he does it, to make sure that he knows i'm watching him and so that i know he's being naughty! Also has been terrorising our poor cat and hit our lodger who he loves to bits.

Goes to nursery for 3 6 hours sessions a week for the moment, as have no family support nearby and DP is usually out of the house from 7.15am -8pm and it gives me some sanity and a chance to spend guilt free time with DS2, and attempt to find time to cook and get things done!! Plus we think it does him good to mix properly with other children. He loves going and i don't even get a kiss or a goodbye when i take him, he just walks off to where his room is, very happy there and very independent! But the last 2 weeks, when i go to pick him up, he starts screeching when he sees me, and lots of No's, refusing to put on his coat and shoes etc....one night this week he took his shoes off twice and threw them across the room, then put them back in the shoe box, and also hit me several times. Last night he ran off and lay down on the mats they sleep on as if he was stopping overnight! He used to be very happy to see me and want to go home asap.

Also lots of food refusal, although not sure if this is part and parcel of same issues or not, as he has reflux and we'd just tried to take him off one of his medications, so don't know if that could actually be a factor, so he's back on it as of this morning so guess time will tell if he starts to eat properly again...

Any tips? Hoping it's just a phase but at the moment we are on eggshells not knowing what will change his mood and trying to be consistent re discipline but would love our little boy back asap, and not sure how long it will take/what we can do to speed things up!!

[NiceCupOfTeaAndASitDown]

Hi Loopy! Not sure I have any tips but reading your post (and identifying with a lot of it) I can't help wondering how much of this behaviour is normal for this age??? Obviously we'll never know how our older ones would have acted at this age if they didn't have a younger sibling but most of my friends had moments with their younger ones at a certain age where they didn't always like them very much :( so perhaps some of it is just what toddlers do?

I'm sure I read about food refusal being common because the taste buds change or something, we're certainly experiencing it here (21 months) where DS used to pretty much eat anything before. No he says "don't like it" to the majority of food before he's even tried it! Yesterday I helped combat it a little at lunchtime by taking him to the freezer (yes I sometimes use frozen veg) and asking him to pick what vegetables he'd like. I then put them all on my plate and let him try one piece of something, tell me if he liked it - in which case I put some on his plate. He still refused things but ate more than he has been eating :)

[NiceCupOfTeaAndASitDown]

I cooked it first obviously! :)

[crazypaving]

cupoftea frozen veg????



Well I'm knackered. DS1 has been waking at night - last night for TWO HOURS, 4-6am. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?????????/ He's not ill. Could it be his 2nd set of molars? And ds2 has started feeding every 2hrs round thhe clock, and takes up to 90mins to settle post feed. [broken woman emoticon]

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[AngelDog]

:(, crazy. Hope tonight is a little better.

Loopy I agree lots of this is normal toddler behaviour but hard to tell. Friends have said to me it often goes in phases - DC1 seems to be coping well but then loses it again for a while.

We had lots of food refusal in the first couple of weeks. DS1 would have hysterics before every meal. He goes into meltdown if he doesn't eat often enough so we just let him eat pretty much anything he liked. It got better on its own. He also would scream about his highchair so we've put him on a normal chair now and the pre-meal hysterics have pretty much disappeared since. :)

Good day here. DH took DS1 swimming and a friend came round so I had Proper Adult Conversation for the first time in ages. Much better than toddler group yesterday when DS1 had the screaming abdabs every time I tried to talk to someone.

[crazypaving]

I agree with toddler behaviour being "normal" for those with no siblings too and also going in phases. We've had lots of "no nunch" "no supper" but can be coaxed into his chair with favourite food bribes (luckily for us, usually a plum or satsuma!). DS1 has recently gone mental about his personal space and belongings, and will go totally awol on any child approaching him when he has a toy. He tried to stamp on a 9 month old crawling vaguely in his direction yesterday because he felt threatened And it's blardy hard to deal with when you have DS2 yodelling in the sling.... But then I figure that's probably just him being a bipolar normal toddler.

[AngelDog]

How's everyone doing?

crazy, have things calmed down at all?

2.10 y.o. DS1 has started a phase of trying to hit other children (for the first time in his life). He gets seriously upset about it and today it was difficult to deal with because I was being crowded by other toddlers wanting to stroke DS2 who was asleep in the sling. Unfortunately DS1 finds it hard to tolerate anyone else near his brother.

I'm still feeling as if I don't like DS1 very much a lot of the time. I don't feel like I dislike him (at least, not often), but I don't feel very positive about him either. :(

[crazypaving]

Angel my previously very peaceful DS1 is also attacking other children. Really struggling to deal with it - he hits them with toys and everything. Argh.

[WhoahThereCrazyHorse]

Hi all! Haven't posted much but lurking lots and feeling better about us all encountering very similar issues!! I just wondered how much time your babies spend awake in the day now? Ds is 5 weeks and I feel as though apart from feeding and a couple of half hour periods he just sleeps all day! It makes things easier when I have dd to deal with but if you read one if the baby routine books (Gina Ford anyone?!) they would indicate that there should be much longer periods of awake time to facilitate night time sleeping....

Would live to know what your babies are doing?

Hope everyone has a good day x

[crazypaving]

CrazyHorse DS2 is asleep for much of the day (in moby). Some days has some nice alert time after a feed but really not much. He gets over tired and cries really quickly. Evenings are another matter - yesterday was awake 4pm-midnight that wa sfun...

[crazypaving]

btw DS2 is 7wks and surely gina ford is in fact the devil incarnate?

[AngelDog]

Must be something in the air, crazy - DS2 was awake 5pm - 1am.

I agree that Gina Ford is mental. e.g. DH needs an hour and a half less sleep per night than me. He naturally wakes at 5.30am. I naturally wake at 7.30. Adults need different amounts of sleep & at different times, so why not babies?

DS2 (5 weeks) only has 1 or 2 awake times per day (1.5 hours including feeding time) plus his fussy awake spell, which usually lasts 2-4 hours. He sleeps fantastically at night (unless his fussy spell falls in the night). He spends all day sleeping in the sling - only on me, though, as he won't fall asleep if DH is wearing it.

DS1 OTOH was awake for much more of the day at this age and was appalling at night. IME for most babies, sleep begets sleep.

[EarnestDullard]

Can I join? DD2 is 7 weeks, DD1 is 2 years 9 months. DD1 is good at playing independently and I have to admit I just leave her to it a lot of the time. By the time I've dealt with the baby and done the bare minimum of feeding, washing and dressing us all, keeping the house vaguely in order etc., I don't have much energy left for playing with a toddler :( I guess it will get easier as DD2 gets a little older. And DD1 has been great, not clingy or jealous of the new baby at all.

[crazypaving]

Hi Earnest welcome to the party!

Okay I'm back to wondering whether DS1's behaviour is normal toddler behaviour or a result of the appearance of DS2. My goodness he's being difficult at the moment. And someone came to say hello today, made a big fuss of DS1, then turned and kissed DS2 and DS1 chucked himself on the floor yelling It makes me wonder if I'm doing anything to make it worse. Or is this to be expected? How do I make it easier for him?

Last night was so grim. DS2 is 7weeks and nights are steadily getting worse and worse. They will get better soon, right? I seem to remember 8 weeks being a bit of a turning point with DS1. I really really hope things improve soon - every night a bit/lot more sleep is stolen from me and I wonder how little I can survive on....!!!! [massive eye bags emoticon] Doesn't help that they're both sodding waking at the moment, and never at the same time, of course.

Sigh. Sorry to be totally moany again. Hope everyone else is getting on ok!

[AngelDog]

at Earnest on the calmness of your DD1. Welcome!

I know what you mean about not having much time for playing. I'm supposed to be doing child-directed play with DS every day to help with his verbal dyspraxia, but I just can't seem to fit it in! We do manage to get out of the house every day - but that's absolutely essential for sanity.

crazy, that sounds tough. Remind me how old he is. If he's not sleeping well, that'll be having a huge effect on his behaviour.

According to my sleep books, ,m9.,.,.6-8 weeks is when new baby unsettledness (and particularly evening unsettledness) peaks. 6 weeks from due date is usually when it's at its worst. From 6-8 weeks they start having their longest sleep at night (even if that's not very long) so hopefully that might start soon. That might be from due date too rather than birth date.

This morning was hard work as DS2 wouldn't go to sleep after being up for a bit. I went out for a walk with the sling 3 times in my pyjamas before I could get him off. I'm sure the neighbours think I'm the crazy lady...

Just a newborn would be okay here as DS2 is so calm - it's trying to co-ordinate things that's difficult. It was 3 hours after getting up that DS1 and I finally managed to have breakfast.

DS2 hasn't had a fussy evening at all yet - which is lovely as I've had chance to get things done, but it's ominous as it's almost certain to happen in the middle of the night instead.