Is anybody else gutted about the shooting of Jo Cox - For democracy, for her family and for the progress that women have made in society?(155 Posts)
I'm dumbfounded at what's happened to Joe Cox. It's so wrong on so many levels.
It's shocking. I initially believe this poor woman lost her life as a result of poor understanding, treatment and cures for mental health conditions. We will know more in time.
It's also to do with the hatred and division that has been whipped up and positively encouraged recently.
Her death is an individual tragedy, but the broader picture of which it is a symptom of is also pretty tragic
Er is it? Its all? I am getting more a picture of someone with severe mental health issues?
"Mair, 52, who was arrested by armed officers shortly after the attack, had spoken about receiving “psychotherapy and medication”, and was described by his younger brother as having “a history of mental illness”.
He said: “I am struggling to believe what has happened. My brother is not violent and is not all that political. I don’t even know who he votes for. He has a history of mental illness, but he has had help.”
Interesting tweet here - interview with an eyewitness who says he never heard the attacker say 'Britain First', as claimed by the media
I have to say, I find it pretty grim the way this tragedy is being exploited as more grist for the mill - especially by the Guardian.
Nobody knows what his motivations were, or the actual events leading up to and during this unbelievable tragedy.
Anything suggested - whether it be a political aspect or a mental health aspect is pure conjecture. As much as it sickens me the number of far-right filth filling up twitter with "false-flag" claims, I am also worried that people are pouncing on the perceived politics of the attacker.
As a general point of view, if there is a thread running through the media, social media and the conversations of the public generally that "we need to do something about these immigrants" there will be people who use that to excuse acts of racism, discrimination, insult and violence.
Similarly, when people were angry about the poll tax in the early nineties or the Iraq war more recently, that also pushed people towards feeling they had an excuse to act with impunity from the law. Again with demonstrations after the credit crunch etc. etc. etc.
If you build a climate where people can find an excuse OR where those with limited understanding or even mental health issues either feel vindicated or encouraged to act illegally, then that will happen.
But for this specific action, until we know as many of the facts as possible, perhaps we should step away from apportioning blame.
It's not exploiting a tragedy to point out the potential roots of it. I'm kind of amazed at all the people rushing to try and deny that this might not be - possibly because it's an uncomfortable truth.
To counter your post Parrots in any case, there's been more corroboration that this was shouted, and by more than 1 witness. Plus the counter terrorism police have now been asked to become involved.
To quote the Guardian in fact - www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/the-guardian-view-on-jo-cox-an-attack-on-humanity-idealism-and-democracy?CMP=share_btn_tw
"Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay."
Although *unexpsoc is fair to say both that at the moment we don't really know so I do agree with people's reservations about a rush to judgement, but also that a very unpleasant climate has been created.
We've seen this throughout history - if you 'other' someone or attribute danger to them, whether as traitors or vermin then violence can become an 'accepted' reaction. There are so many examples of this happening.
I think the only thing we can take for certain is what his brother has said and that is he was receiving psychotherapy and on medication for his mental health
Any political message can become distorted to some people but it's far far more complex than that. Was he taking his medication, was he going through a psychotic episode are amoung many questions that may go unanswered because at times we just don't know why people commit such horrendous acts against other people
Living in a democracy gives us freedom but at times it allows hatred and anger to be expressed does that lead others to murder. I don't think it's something you can say is an absolute yes because people are far more complex than that
Would we be having this conversation if he was Muslim and had shouted "Allah"?
No, we would refer to him as a terrorist or Muslim extremist and his mental health wouldn't come into it.
That said I do believe from what has been reported that he did indeed have significant mental health issues. Certain,y enough mental health issues that hatred whipped up by an irresponsible media had him murdering a woman in cold blood because her views differed from his.
Alfie, I agree with you re double standards.
And his brother said he wasn't political, yet he had links with Far Right/Nazi connections and interests. Mmm, that's political to me.
This says it far better thanI ever could:
When you encourage rage you cannot then feign surprise when people become enraged. You cannot turn around and say, ‘Mate, you weren’t supposed to take it so seriously. It’s just a game, just a ploy, a strategy for winning votes.’
When you shout BREAKING POINT over and over again, you don’t get to be surprised when someone breaks. When you present politics as a matter of life and death, as a question of national survival, don’t be surprised if someone takes you at your word. You didn’t make them do it, no, but you didn’t do much to stop it either.
Sometimes rhetoric has consequences. If you spend days, weeks, months, years telling people they are under threat, that their country has been stolen from them, that they have been betrayed and sold down the river, that their birthright has been pilfered, that their problem is they’re too slow to realise any of this is happening, that their problem is they’re not sufficiently mad as hell, then at some point, in some place, something or someone is going to snap. And then something terrible is going to happen.
I'm sure everyone is gutted about this tragedy.
Sounds like there's an awful lot of adding two and two to make five though. Nobody knows yet why the attack happened.
I think the media headlines of "MP murdered in broad daylight and the referendum campaigning has been suspended" is creating a link that isn't necessarily there.
*Would we be having this conversation if he was Muslim and had shouted "Allah"?
No, we would refer to him as a terrorist or Muslim extremist and his mental health wouldn't come into it.*
Well, yes, we would - On another thread, at least two posters don't think a murderer who swore allegiance to ISIS and who ISIS have 'claimed' did it in the name of ISIS. Therefore, I presume, even if this guy is found to have killed in the name of 'Britain First' they won't accept that either.
helmet actually exactly that happened with the horrific rigby murder - the guy had /has significant mental health issues but it was classified as muslim terrorism (Note I don't want to play top trumps)
Any lone killer is pretty much by definition "not right", deranged, mentally ill - whatever words you want to use. I have no doubt that this person will be found to fall into this category.
But killers don't kill in a vacuum. When groups of people - MPs, abortion doctors, gay people, soldiers - are routinely demonised on ideological grounds, then we should not be surprised when mentally ill people take that demonisation literally, and act on it in the most tragic way.
The question to ask isn't why this guy killed - he killed because he was deranged - but how he came to choose his victim, and why now?
The murder of Lee rugby was politically motivated (Islamic) terrorism, surely that's accepted?
And it's looking like this might have been too (right-wing- but early days, of course,)
this is interesting - comment on attached article (above):
I watched and listened to this whole event unfold on both the BBC News (radio and television) and Sky News. On numerous occasions eyewitnesses were interviewed. Not a single one of these (approximately 10 in total), mentioned anything about 'Britain First', or "Put Britain first". In fact later in the day when one gentleman was interviewed on camera and asked about this he categorically denied it. As soon as the "Britain First" story broke I searched everywhere for the source and it came from a Remainer MP Maria Eagle who has since removed said tweet. Only then did the BBC run with it by mentioning the comment in passing and with caution. Later, on the BBC 10pm news, the now infamous Mr. Clarke Rothwell appeared, giving his "only TV interview" to the BBC, declaring that he heard the phrase (I have since found that the Daily Mail online had quoted him earlier in the day). However even he wasn't sure exactly what he heard. Only one witness with a dubious memory heard anything, and we have now had multiple sources deny that this phrase was ever used. The BBC have to retract all statements to the contrary because they are milking this awful event for their own ideological reasons, and we know that these are obviously connected to the the referendum itself.
Like · Reply · 122 · 4 hrs
The Guardian editorial is trying to make political capital for the Remain camp, shameful . Their strategy could backfire and end up giving a boost to Leave.
Comments were initially allowed but it seems they weren't the comments they were hoping for as loads were deleted, now closed.
Hopefully the police will be able to establish his motives.
I guess it's a tribute to them that he's still alive.
Such a sad, sad thing to happen.
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