How on earth can Paypal decide against me ???

[LaurieFairyCake]

I bought a necklace described as rare Art Nouveau listed under the period Victorian 1895-1910 for more than 100 quid.

It arrives, it's clearly modern, I take it to a jeweller to confirm it. He says it's silver, modern, worth about 15 quid.

I raise a dispute as seller won't accept it back. She responds to case saying she was sold it in the 80's as art nouveau.

Paypal decide after a month that the discrepancy was minor so the transaction stands.

What do I do now?

[bumpybecky]

did you pay using a credit card via paypal?

[LaurieFairyCake]

No, it takes funds directly from my bank card.

[LaurieFairyCake]

What's worse is that the seller said on the listing also that shed accept returns.

[DinosaursHateUnderpants]

Did you open an ebay 'not as described' case too?

Is there any right of appeal with PayPal do you know? I've never used PayPal for disputes, only ebay and I believe that ebay are more buyer than seller focused in these cases. Apologies if it is an ebay case you are talking about.

Sorry, really not sure what else to suggest other than appeal to to PayPal if they are the ones that have found in sellers favour.

[LaurieFairyCake]

They are joined up now, I opened a paypal case but opening an eBay case does the same thing apparently.

I'm going to have to take them to the small claims court

I won one once before, ten years ago - got a ccj against them and then the woman moved to Canada!

I thought eBay/paypal had sorted this out now. It couldn't be clearer cut - it's not 'in the style of' or anything like that, it's listed and described as Art Nouveau and that she would accept returns.

[DinosaursHateUnderpants]

My mistake then - I'd understood that opening claims was independent in so far as lodging the dispute and that you had a choice of one or the other (can't remember why but most people suggest ebay rather than PayPal for disputes). I've only ever used ebay - have you tried contacting ebay to see what they suggest - think I'd try that first.

Hopefully Fergoose will see this - she knows loads more than I do about this

[LaurieFairyCake]

How do I find her address?

It just says her name and email.

[LaurieFairyCake]

I've just called my bank and they couldn't help either :(

I'm really stressed now and can't sleep. I can't even find the woman's address on paypal or eBay to take her to small claims court. I thought all sellers had to put their address on.

[DinosaursHateUnderpants]

Laurie - I've found this link on ebay - does it help? here

[LaurieFairyCake]

Yes! That helps massively.

Can't see wood for trees. Doesn't help that the woman on my 24 hour banking was massively patronising and said 'don't you know how to fill in the online form?' meaning the bank form. I said if course I did but none of the options seemed to apply.

She then told me to just call back in the morning. Snottily.

[DinosaursHateUnderpants]

I'm so sorry, sounds horrendous and I know in the same situation I'd be fuming and not sleeping either, I'm still amazed that they found in sellers favour. Fingers crossed that you can get this sorted soon.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Right, filled in the form - got an immediate response - she has not put her address in the information so it just comes up London.

I'm screwed. I'm calling Paypal in the morning - they can't have been arsed to look at it properly.

I need her address if they won't resolve it.

I haven't even left her feedback yet.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Thanks for all your help Dino

[DinosaursHateUnderpants]

Is there not a telephone number - you may be able to trace through that - I thought all sellers had to register their details, I did.

Don't just contact PayPal - do call ebay too.

[KatieMortician]

Sorry I'm no use with the eBay side of things but goods paid for with a debit card I know a bit about (ex-bank manager).

Assuming you have a VISA debit card, ask your bank to open a VISA dispute because the item is not as described. See here. I understand SWITCH do the same thing.

The Nationwide use this form and the content is standard to give you an idea. www.nationwide.co.uk/pdf/current_account/visa_dispute_form.pdf

And leave the bitch some really, really snotty feedback.

[LaurieFairyCake]

I do have a Visa Debit card and I will certainly not be palmed off in the morning when I call them - thanks, that's really helpful.

[KatieMortician]

Good luck. If it's Santander their form is almost identical to the Nationwide one.

Every branch should have one if need be. In fact I'm sure I had to complete one myself about two years ago. They had no clue what I was talking about but I got them to print it off the system. And then I filled it out, including the bit for staff use (it was quicker to do it and explain it as I went but honestly, anyone who can read can manage it).

Once the form went off I got a letter in the post saying it could take weeks to get the money back and the following week it was back in my account without explanation.

You will get your money back eventually. In the meantime choose some choice words for that feedback. Maybe scammer or fraudster or con-artise?

[fergoose]

I agree appalling

I think it would be worth you phoning paypal and speaking to them - tell them you will be getting in touch with the FSA

[fergoose]

also if the paypal case has closed I think you may be able to open an ebay case - I just know you can't have both open at the same time.

[JaneBirkin]

Do what Fergoose and Katie say...I'm appalled, I've always trusted paypal but not any more.

They normally ask for a document - I had a disgusting pushchair sent to me once, and had to pay £12 to get a local shop to write a report on its condition, printed logo on the paper etc so it was all professional.

Paypal then took a copy of this via scanning it into an email,

it was found in my favour.
I'm very surprised they haven't asked you to get a jeweller's report or similar to verify you've been sold a piece of crap.

BEST of LUCK

[fergoose]

sorry - another post from me. Could you speak to eBay via live chat or on the phone. They may be able to help.

[JaneBirkin]

Oh yes and the worst feedback possible. Naturally. Calm, considered, not ranty. Probably in lower case.
'Item verified as worthless by jeweller. Please don't buy from this person.'

and if she replies, say 'in process of taking to small claims court' or 'appealing paypal decision with jeweller's report' or something.

Or wait a while to leave feedback till it's resolved properly.

[LoveBeingAWitch]

eBay and paypal claims are separate. Really suggest you open an eBay claim it's very hard for sellers to get found in their favour for not as described.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Ok, it doesn't let you open different claims any more - as soon as you go to 'open case' in Ebay and input the transaction number and select the item it comes back with saying: "This case has already been closed in the Resolutions centre".

Ebay and Paypal separate claims are no more.

Great point about the feedback.

I'm sitting here waiting for paypal and my bank to open - 8.30 for paypal.

[fergoose]

Apparently I have read threatening the FSA makes them quake in their boots as an FSA investigation costs paypal money, so definitely worth a phone call

Don't leave feedback yet - and don't mention court or refunds as it will be removed

Is it a business seller by the way - do you want to pm me the auction and I will see if I can find the sellers address for you. Even googling their phone number can sometimes be useful.

You will have their name from the paypal payment which could be useful.