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Original poster

How on earth can Paypal decide against me ???

77 replies

LaurieFairyCake · 17/10/2011 23:27

I bought a necklace described as rare Art Nouveau listed under the period Victorian 1895-1910 for more than 100 quid.

It arrives, it's clearly modern, I take it to a jeweller to confirm it. He says it's silver, modern, worth about 15 quid.

I raise a dispute as seller won't accept it back. She responds to case saying she was sold it in the 80's as art nouveau.

Paypal decide after a month that the discrepancy was minor so the transaction stands.

What do I do now?

OP posts:
pallymama · 18/10/2011 10:26

But she listed it under antiques. How can ebay say she didn't describe it as antique when that's where she listed it? Confused

fergoose · 18/10/2011 10:29

have you called paypal again?

NhameCage · 18/10/2011 10:30

But it is described as Art Nouveau in the listing and it the item title.

CristinaaarghdellAaarghPizza · 18/10/2011 10:32

Exactly. It's not described as 'Art Nouveau style', it's Art Nouveau. And she told you that when you queried it.

Call Paypal again and give them grief and tell them you will be pursuing it further if they don't refund you your money.

Fixture · 18/10/2011 10:34

What about the distance selling regulations, do they apply?

fergoose · 18/10/2011 10:52

might be worth a call to consumer direct

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/Yourconsumerrightswhenbuyinggoodsandservices/DG_194650

If it were a business seller they would not have a leg to stand on. It all gets a bit murky with private sellers, but the bottom line is the seller lied, obtained money by fraudulently advertising an item as antique. I would keep complaining if I were you - we are all behind you!

DinosaursHateUnderpants · 18/10/2011 11:04

And definitely speak to eBay over and above anything you are pursuing with PayPal - I'm pretty certain that if this had been an ebay case it would have gone in your favour. Crikey, I've opened ebay disputes for not as described and in all cases they found in my favour and in a couple I didn't even have to return the item!

fergoose · 18/10/2011 11:06

I agree with dinosaurs - shout it from the rooftops to anyone who will listen.

JaneBirkin · 18/10/2011 11:23

Yes, she has described it as 'Art Nouveau', which is a specific jewellery style from a certain period - it is nOT transposeable to 80s tat 'in the style of'. It's in the ccategory suggesting it is from the correct period - it's not.

The seller has misdescribed it in both these ways and for paypal to refuse your claim on the grounds she didn't say it was 'vintage' or 'antique' (thogh technically she has, if in the case notes she says it is 100 years old ffs) is an absolute outrage.

Sugegst to them that you may yourself list it in the same category, using the same description, and sell it to some other unsuspecting sucker and will they object if you do this?

Eejits. Total, utter eejits.

JaneBirkin · 18/10/2011 11:27

and it reached that price due to other people bidding on it because of a fraudulent (even if accidentally/innocently fraudulent) description.

I think had you simply said you didn't think it suited you, but she might get more if she listed it again, she might have let you return it...sadly though the moment she heard it was definitely worth about tuppence, she knew she'd never see that money again if she refunded you.

So she did the greedy thing.
what a horrid person. I couldn't live with myself.

FlossieFromCrapstonVillas · 18/10/2011 11:28

contact ebay, they give you a phone number (if they think you're worthy enough!) You'll speak to a real, helpful person and they'll resolve it for you.

Original poster
LaurieFairyCake · 18/10/2011 15:11

The computers were 'down' at paypal this morning Hmm and the Paypal representative did not re-open it till an hour ago. She has opened it on behalf of the 'seller' rather than the buyer.

I have uploaded a pdf with all the info on it to get them to look at it again.

I have then used the basis of the misleading and innacurate information she gave me to lodge a complaint with Paypal as well.

I now have to wait.

So I'm going to amuse myself by calling my bank to try and get them to cover it under the Visa debit guarantee. They were unhelpful last night - hopefully they will be more use today.

OP posts:
KatieMortician · 18/10/2011 15:32

How frustrating for you! When you ring the bank don't ask if you can raise a VISA dispute tell them you are making a claim.

I do think though that someone at Paypal who is a bit thick just doesn't understand that Art Nouveau is a period and indicates a type of antique. Perhaps try explaining (on the phone, I wouldn't bother in writing) that it's akin to saying it's a pair of Ugg boots when in fact they're a knock-off from China?

I'd keep it simple for the thickos Paypal. Item is not as described; it was described as Art Nouveau and is not Art Nouveau. Seller said she'd accept returns and is now breaching the contract after the sale by refusing to accept the return.

Leave everything else, just keep reiterating those two points. If necessary ask to speak to a supervisor.

Original poster
LaurieFairyCake · 18/10/2011 15:44

I have talked to the Bank who were actually really helpful today.

She told me to do the following:

  1. Email Paypal today and tell them my bank said that they will do a chargeback on this transaction if they don't resolve it to my satisfaction.
Apparently my contract is with Paypal and the bank will take the money (chargeback) from them (not the seller).
  1. If paypal don't do anything or resolve it without giving me my money back I've to (scarily) send the necklace back to Paypal recorded delivery to the Paypal address the bank gave me.
  1. Send the bank a letter with the original Ebay listing, supporting evidence, photo copy of the recipt for sending it back to Paypal.
  1. Paypal then have 45 days to PROVE that the item is as described. If they don't my bank takes the money from Paypal.

Yes, this is going to drag on til after Christmas.

OP posts:
KatieMortician · 18/10/2011 15:49

That is good. VISA will also give them a black mark which if they get enough will potentially push up how much VISA charge them to process payments for them.

I reckon Paypal will cave when they see you are not going away. Paypal are just round the corner from me at Heron Square in Richmond if you're sending it back. I think they also have an office in Dublin but I'd keep it in the UK (not sure why but feels sensible).

Original poster
LaurieFairyCake · 18/10/2011 15:52

It's the Heron Square HQ they told me to send it back to.

OP posts:
KatieMortician · 18/10/2011 16:02

Well if you need a picket I'm free from next month and then we can all go back to mine for tea Grin

Original poster
LaurieFairyCake · 18/10/2011 16:12
Grin
OP posts:
KatieMortician · 18/10/2011 16:18

There's always cake when Waitrose is at the bottom of the garden Grin

sarahtigh · 18/10/2011 16:28

vintage is over 25 years old so if bought in 1980's it could technically be vintage, antique section on ebay needs to be treated with care, there are sometthings in antuique section that are new and not used condition Shock and Angry

if she is not a business seller and it was an auction distance selling regulations do not apply, it just has to be as described which it appears it was not; but short of a report you can not prove it was not; so caught between rock and a hard place,

on principle you may wish to use small claims court but unfortunately economically it makes no sense with time fees and a day off work to attend it will cost way more than a £100,

we have victorian house so often buy stuff for house on ebay we have been traicked a few times with new stuff, but now we email questions a lot mnore so we have it in writing they believe it to be old, I also sell a few bits and pieces from that period too and I have learnt to be very very careful with descriptions

sarahtigh · 18/10/2011 16:33

it says specifically in selling regulations that calling something art m=nouveau when you mean art nouveau style is wrong also stating art nouveau? does not cover your back in a title

i think OP is right to want refund however lots of antique/vintage jewellry is not hallmarked so can be difficult for mateur to know it is just possible that seller herself was hood winked but that is no excuse for passing bad bargain on again to some other unsuspecting individual

Original poster
LaurieFairyCake · 18/10/2011 16:43

I do have it in writing from the seller that they claim it is old. She responded to Paypal saying it was from the period 1895-1910.

OP posts:
Original poster
LaurieFairyCake · 18/10/2011 16:45

And the good thing is you don't have to go to court, it's all done by mail.

My problem is I don't have her address.

Thankfully according to my bank my contract is with paypal, hence why they want me to return it to paypal.

OP posts:
bumpybecky · 18/10/2011 16:46

have you taken a screen shot of the listing as it is? I'm pretty sure it can't be changed now, but won't hurt to get a copy

hope you get it sorted out soon

JaneBirkin · 18/10/2011 17:37

The listing will be removed after a certain period of time so yes get a screen shot, though paypal will have a record of it I think

Good luck

Bank sounds great

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