To not know what to do about this

[imsoverytired83]

DD6 when fighting with DD4 (which happens constantly and about everything) keeps touching her (DD4s) privates. She will do it in front of me. It really upsets DD4 who then tells me and tells nursery who have confronted me about it (thankfully). I gave DD4 lots off praise for telling me about it.

Things I have done

• asked DD6 about her privates and checked nobody has done it to her - she says know and says that if someone did it to her then she would feel sad.
  
• explained to DD6 that privates are private and she shouldn’t touch our peoples and they shouldn’t touch hers
  
• bought DD6 a book about private parts and read it to her repeatedly
  
• ignored it and focused on DD4 being upset and comforting her
  
• I have removed a privilege because of it
  
• i have got cross about it and told off DD6 about it (end of my tether)
  

DD6 struggles emotionally and is having ELSA support at school and at home.

I am really worried about the impact on DD4 but i am running out of ideas and approaches here and its starting to get me down as nobody seems to be able to give me advice on it.

Please be gentle with me, i just want it to stop for both children.

I am not sure of the aibu, I am posting for traffic

[imsoverytired83]

Sorry DD6 confirms that nobody has done it to her and i have asked her several ways. I asked her why and she said ‘because DD4 is annoying’

[binkyblinky]

Please look at the pants rule by the NSPCC there's some good resources in there

[Sheleg]

Remove more privileges. She needs to understand that she CANNOT continue doing this to her sister.

[imsoverytired83]

Thank you Binkyblinky - I have also done that already- I forgot about that. I think i might reorder it again though.

[imsoverytired83]

Sheleg- thank you. It didn’t work last time but i am going to try again.

[imsoverytired83]

I have reordered the PANTs activity pack from NSPCC thank you for reminding me about that one

[BornIn78]

What was the privilege you removed and how long for?

[WithTheJonses]

Have you asked her if she learned it from somewhere?!

[Stompythedinosaur]

We used to talk about there being rules and "big rules" that are extra serious when we were trying to explain to dd1 why she mustn't bite her sister. If she broke a "big rule" i would be shocked and it would be quite serious, there would be a serious consequence and she would have to talk to me and her dad about it.

I also think you need to massively increase your supervision of them, if necessary having them in seperate areas if that is what it takes to protect your youngest.

I wonder if someone like a health visitor or school nurse might be able to help?

[SleepingStandingUp]

I'd you're sure she's not had it done to her or send someone doing it to someone else, that she understands that privates are not for touching etc then it's just as escalation of punishment.

Tell her the next time it happens that you've told her repeatedly and it is not funny or acceptable so from now on every time it happens when have time out (6 minutes whilst you and DD cuddle) plus X punishment that increases if she keeps doing it so TV time, toy etc

[imsoverytired83]

I am very confident nobody has done it to her. I have asked her about it, told her that its important not to keep secrets, read the book about private [arts which has a good bit about keeping secrets in there and then asked again and she still says that nobody has done it to her. I asked her where she learned it and she said that she didn’t, she just did it. I asked her why she did it and she says that dd4 IS ‘annoying’. We dont have any support bubbles so it wouldn’t be anyone at home.

I give DD4 a lot of attention when it happens. DD6 gets upset about this and cries but she then goes off and forgets about it. Last time she did it i took away a kids make up set that she got for Christmas and put it away but she then forgot about it it. I have also taken away a ‘pizza night’ where we get takeaway pizza but she doesn’t care about that either.

I told her tonight that if she doesn’t stop i am going to have to speak to her teacher about it which does seem to make her think but i am not sure what she can do about it.

[ArnoldBee]

Is she doing it because of the reaction she gets when she does it?

[NicEv]

I agree with increasing supervision to safeguard DD4 - I would not be leaving them alone at all. Your priority needs to be on keeping your younger child safe.

If they begin to argue you will need to be super vigilant and if she goes to do this in front of you I would be extremely angry, tell her clearly that it is completely wrong and implement punishment consistently and every time

I actually wonder if you need some professional support with this - how old are the kids? I have never heard of anything like this and I wonder if you need to involve CAMS. Can the school advise ? My worry would also be she might do this to another child

[BornIn78]

You took away a kids make up set? That was her punishment?

She’s doing it right in front of you. You need to stop leaving them alone out of your sight as the most basic thing you can do.

The next time she does it I would give her the absolute fucking bollocking of her life, and she would be going into a time out for a lot bloody longer than 6 minutes.

Doing it twice in a day would be a time out again, even longer, plus she’s not allowed anywhere near her sister for the rest of the day, followed by a 6pm bedtime where she is allowed to read for 10 minutes then lights out.

You need to nip this in the bid before she starts doing it at school, or your younger daughters nursery report it to SS.

[dancemom]

What would your reactions and consequences be if your dd6 was your ds6?

[1Morewineplease]

I'm interested to know why your DD6 has an ELSA. Please don't say if you'd rather not.

[IthinkIm]

I would give her the bollocking of her life if she does it again too.

And I would be asking her again if it's happened to her.

[Santaiscovidfree]

I would be telling her older dc go to prison for that...

[Boulshired]

Is she easily fixated in other areas of her life and does she crave any attention good or bad? Extra supervision is needed and maybe individual play at the moment until it stops.

[ILoveMyMonkey]

I think the key is consistency, you can’t keep changing between punishments. I think taking away things is not going to work in this instance. You need to firmly, and quite angrily, tell her off every single time she does it (she needs to really know from your tone that she is in trouble), remove her from the situation and tell her in no uncertain terms that it is not ok to touch other peoples privates and make it very clear that she is wrong to do it to her sister even if she is annoying her. Go over the pants rule every time and make her apologise to her sister. You need to make sure you do it every single time and really let her know you are cross.

I’m not quite sure what you think telling eat her teacher will achieve, her teacher isn’t there to stop it at the time and other than telling her it’s wrong and going over the pants rule there’s not much else the teacher can do other than record it as a safeguarding concern. You are the parent and must deal with this for both their sakes.

[Love51]

I'd be looking at the other times, when she isn't displaying unwanted behaviour and praising her to the heavens for every positive choice she makes and make sure she gets lots of adult attention at the point she is behaving nicely (or even just ok).

I'd also look at discussing what she ought to do when dd2 is annoying - tell her how she should behave in that situation, even make her practice. If your answer is 'tell mum' then make sure when she does that you attend to the situation and praise her for responding in the agreed way. She needs to know that you can be trusted to keep your end of the agreement!

[Ameliablue]

It sounds like you have done a lot to try to explain that this behaviour is wrong. Is it possible this is drawing her attention to it more and more so having the opposite effect?
My other thought is to perhaps our more importance in what is happening beforehand. Siblings this age will inevitably bicker but is there any warning that things are escalating to a point that your eldest will then react in this way? Can you break the cycle by intervening at an earlier point?
What can you do to occupy them in different ways?
This is by no means trying to place blame at you or suggest you are not doing enough as I know it can be pretty impossible to supervise constantly and dissuade siblings from arguing.

[WhenISnappedAndFarted]

She obviously doesn't take you seriously if you're saying 'I'm going to tell your teacher'. You're her Mum and you shouldn't have to threaten to tell the teacher because that suggests she's more concerned about what her teacher thinks than you.

You need to do far more than take away a make up set.

[imalmosthere]

Please forgive me if this sounds harsh,
Or naive - but it doesn't actually sound like you've punished her. It very much sounds like you're tip toeing around it, and she's still
Doing it because she doesn't think she will get in that much trouble. She doesn't care about the pizza or the Make up, so you need to do something she DOES care about.
I don't want to frighten you, but you're being very calm over something which could lead to SS involvement. Your younger child needs to be safeguarded, and she isn't being protected. When she is an adult, if this memory is triggered, she could be going to therapy for
Childhood sexual assault.
I'm not for one moment saying your DD6 knows she's assaulting your DD4. And I'm sure a lot of posters will disagree as they are so young, but sexual abuse is the only category this falls in to.

[MissBaskinIfYoureNasty]

What has happened to cause her emotional struggles and need for ELSA?
There must be a root cause here that punishments and consequences won't deal with..