To think the world has gone stark raving bonkers

[sleepyjane]

Sorry it's another trans one but this is a ridiculous one. I have a twelve year old dgd who has told me that a girl in her class, who identifies herself as a lesbian has now told class mates that she can't decide whether she wants to be female or male. She's given herself two names, and told everyone that when she wants to be a girl everyone has to call her Ann (made up name) and when she wants to be a boy everyone must call her Tom. She's also said that if anyone refers to her by the wrong gender then they're being "trans phobic" or whatever she calls it and as such the guilty child will get in trouble. Surely this can't happen.

Would a school really pander to this. Has anyone any advice what to say to my dgd. Surely at 12 she doesn't even know if she's a lesbian no mind the wrong gender. I don't really blame the girl for all this, she's obviously swept up in all the confusion.

[HeidioftheAlps]

A friend was telling me this same story about someone in her ds's school recently.

[gussyfinknottle]

This whole "I must be trans because being a lesbian isn't good enough " bollocks is just ghastly.
I would suggest to your dgd that she does her own thing and if that includes staying away from or keeping at arms length someone who is noisily trying to work out who they are (as if no one else is!) then so be it.
Some people want to drag everyone along on their personal journey. If your dgd uses the wrong name because she's not a bloody mind reader then so what?

[YorkieDorkie]

Ugh I'm happy to support whatever choices people make but this insistence on the world revolving around them is utterly bizarre and they need help for their sense of self importance alone.

[Whydomypubeslooklikeanest]

She's also said that if anyone refers to her by the wrong gender then they're being "trans phobic" or whatever she calls it and as such the guilty child will get in trouble. Surely this can't happen.

If this child changes their mind on a daily/weekly basis then the school will not punish the other children for not using the child's pronoun or name of choice on any given day.

The school would not support that at all unless it was being used to bully the child.

[Gartenzwerg]

Sounds like juvenile attention-seeking by DGD’s classmate.

[Ihatemyclients]

She's a child, behaving like a child. Kids go through totally normal periods of exploration in respect of their own senses of self. Fair enough she sounds a bit bossy but no more than many other 12 year olds on a power trip.

When I was twelve, two of my friends and I insisted on being named after members of the Beatles and wouldn't answer to our own names or accept being called girls. No one cared because kids experiment with their identity all the time! Similarly if this kid was telling everyone she was a dog and asking to be called Rover, you'd probably laugh and agree that kids will be kids. But trans hysteria has become so prevalent on this site that totally normal behaviour from children is now being recast by GROWN ADULTS as something sinister needing to be stamped out and repressed. It's unbelievably depressing.

[HollyBayTree]

Surely at 12 she doesn't even know if she's a lesbian no mind the wrong gender

Thats just a wee bit patronising, at 12 most people do know their sexual preferances. Having worked in education for over 10 years, in my experience, boys come out a lot earlier than girls, probably because they get some comedy milage in being seen as 'camp' and are quickly absorbed by the girl groups. The same does not happen when girls come out, they can be very isolated by both genders.

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

This is the obvious result of telling children they can be whatever sex they "choose". They seem to think it is an actual choice, like wearing the red shoes or the black shoes, depending on how you feel when you wake up in the morning.
Lunacy. But apparently it needs to be pandered to.

[dancinfeet]

What I can't work out is, if they can't make their mind up about whether they are a boy or a girl, why not just choose themselves a name that is unisex? Such as Sam, or Alex. Or pick a name and stick with it. Anything else (such as changing name each time they change their bloody underwear) is just attention seeking. Nothing against it, just hate all the 'look at meeeeee' attention crap. If you want to change sex, get on with it. Why turn it into a 3 act drama with the rest of the class as their supporting cast?!

[Awwlookatmybabyspider]

"Aibu to think the world has gone stark raving mad".

You haven't only just found that out, have you

[QuiteLikely5]

Just call her thingy mbob

Surely this isn’t offensive

[GrasswillbeGreener]

at 12 most people do know their sexual preferances.

NO! I think one of the things that bothers me most about the very vocal LGBT stuff that goes around, is that children and young people are being misled into thinking their first sexual feelings define them for life. It is actually KNOWN that developmentally, children go through a period of attraction to their own sex first before developing feelings for the other. I wish teenagers would be told this so that they don't think they have to rush into identifying themselves as one thing or another, or rush into "proving" their sexuality in either direction, but can be encouraged to explore what real relationships are as they grow and mature. I think this approach would reduce the numbers of very confused teens and young adults who have "declared" one thing and find themselves later feeling something else.

Please note, I am not homophobic, but would prefer issues of sexuality to be respected as a private thing rather than flaunted and made so very public as some subgroups seems to prefer.

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

Maybe it's the "declaring" that's the issue? I never felt the need to go public with my sexuality, on the grounds that it was on a need to know basis... Nobody needed to know at 12!
Why is everything screamed from the rooftops these days? It's pure attention seeking. Facebook has a lot to answer for.

[NanFlanders]

GrassWillBeGreener - sexuality isn't a private thing though. Look at public celebrations of heterosexual marriage / name changes on marriage / questions about marital status on public forms.... It only seems to be LGB people who are expected to keep their relationships/feelings 'private'. Agree that it ought to be easier for people to change their minds /lifestyle if their feelings change and that sexuality is more fluid than is often presented.

[iBiscuit]

Ihatemyclients kids working this stuff out is fine. It's when groups with an agenda get their claws into them with "you were born into the wrong body" crap that the damage occurs.

[MorganKitten]

Saying 12 is too young to young to know isn't really correct, studies have shown by 4 we know preferences but don't understand them.
She may be gay but isn't sure what to do with this information yet so is more genderfluid than thinking she's trans.

[Beamur]

I think the language being used around gender and sexual identity is going through a tumultuous phase at the moment.
My DD is 11 and we have been talking, quite frankly but age appropriately about sex, gender, personal preferences and politics for several years.
I hope to send my child into adulthood with the language and confidence she will need to cope and thrive...I hope. I think I have a Parental responsibility to educate my child as best I can on this.
I think a child of 12 is beginning to experience a sense of their sexual self.

[gussyfinknottle]

It is just attention seeking. The child knows they are doing so and they want to justify bad behaviour with threats to people who don't indulge them. I hope this child works out what they want to be and stops making childish threats to your dgd.

[Ihatemyclients]

@GrasswillbeGreener people only want sexual orientation to be private when it's not straight. A baby boy looks at a baby girl for more than 3 seconds and is called a flirt. Five year old girls have 'boyfriends' and it's a cute thing kids do. No one is up in arms when an 8 year old girl says she's going to marry a prince one day. Eleven year old girls kiss posters of their favourite boy band members. But GOD FORBID a twelve year old girl know she's a lesbian...

[Ihatemyclients]

@iBiscuit in my experience the ones with an agenda trying to force their views on children very much tend to be the people who think there are two genders, that gender corresponds entirely with sex, and that if that doesn't fit your experience it's because you're deluded, mentally ill, attention seeking or a pervert.

[ReanimatedSGB]

She's 12. It sounds like fairly typical pre-teen attention-seeking, possibly with a touch of bullying that she's picked up from online nonsense, but tell your DGD to be civil to the other kid and not worry about it too much.

[Lichtie]

" It is actually KNOWN that developmentally, children go through a period of attraction to their own sex first before developing feelings for the other."

This is a new one on me, I certainly never.

[iBiscuit]

But GOD FORBID a twelve year old girl know she's a lesbian

That's not the problem. It's the 12yo girl who would have become an adult lesbian who ends up taking puberty surpressants, maybe even having surgery later on, because she's allegedly a man that's the problem.

Some people seemingly want to erase gay men and lesbians. This is another way to "cure the gay", and it's horrendous.

[kateandme]

this is potentially damaging to someone else in the class that might actually be struggling with this.if this girl is being manipulative that is and using current climate and conversations to mount behaviour or authority over kids.and almost taking the piss then...
if she is struggling then fair enough.or has made this decision then she needs help discussing this further for all to be sensitive.
but if this is her playing on what going on in the world then I fear what some child sitting in the corner going through this in their heads might be feeling

[BlackRibboner]

My cousin came out at 13, hasn't yet changed his mind. And DH has a colleague who sometimes presents as a woman, other times as a man (with two wholly different names - they have one work account linked to two log ins so they can use the appropriate one on any given day).

Point being just because this girl is young it doesn't mean she has no clue about her own sexuality, and it's not unusual to spend time in both genders, either as part of a transition or a permanent state of being. I agree that the school's unlikely to target anyone making genuine mistakes about pronouns, names etc., but deliberate and consistent misuse or refusal to acknowledge their position may well be seen as transphobic bullying. In which case I'd expect the school to treat it as they would any other instance of bullying. It would be nice if your granddaughter could try and be accommodating, remember the right names and pronouns if she can. Otherwise I can't see what extra advice is needed honestly.