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To think that 30,000 UK deaths should be bigger news

(72 Posts)
Veterinari Tue 30-May-17 07:38:42

Recent research by Oxford University http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-02-20-30000-excess-deaths-2015-linked-cuts-health-and-social-care

'The impact of cuts resulting from the imposition of austerity on the NHS has been profound. Expenditure has failed to keep pace with demand and the situation has been exacerbated by dramatic reductions in the welfare budget of £16.7 billion and in social care spending. With an aging population, the NHS is ever more dependent on a well-functioning social care system. The possibility that the cuts to health and social care are implicated in almost 30,000 excess deaths is one that needs further exploration. Given the relentless nature of the cuts, and potential link to rising mortality, we ask why is the search for a cause not being pursued with more urgency?'

There is a prediction that the 2016 data shows a similar spike sad

Veterinari Tue 30-May-17 07:39:12

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-02-20-30000-excess-deaths-2015-linked-cuts-health-and-social-care

Cocklodger Tue 30-May-17 07:41:09

Just like other deaths caused by cuts,be it disabled people driven to suicide by benefit cuts/refusal/having their claim stopped, or the mentally ill not getting the help they need with tragic consequences...
Its happening in lots of ways. Yanbu op.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday Tue 30-May-17 07:43:39

angry
Yes it should be big news and the conservatives should be answering questions about it.

user1491572121 Tue 30-May-17 07:47:20

That is shocking. shock

user1491572121 Tue 30-May-17 07:48:48

I'd like to see the demographics of those who died too....what sort of income they had and where in the country were most.

angry

LucyTheLocalBike Tue 30-May-17 07:52:51

If Paxman wasn't so moist for the Tories, he would have asked May this last night. As it was he let her ramble on without interrupting.

As the carer of someone with severe MH problems, I am dreading Tories winning this election as things are just going to get worse.

Whatslovegottodo Tue 30-May-17 07:55:03

Absolutely terrible sad. But sadly not unbelievable. I think a lot of people have some disconnect between policies and actual real life. They don't realise it is real people affected by the 'cuts'.
People need to wake up before sleep walking into more Tory cuts. People's lives are literally on the line.

BluePeppers Tue 30-May-17 08:03:47

YANBU and I do hope that this news will make it to the front pages (Those of you on Twitter migt want to spread it too).

Its a disgrace but beause it's not visible (unlike say a very serious car crash etc...), its ok to leave it untold sad

I wish that the people who are voting to support those cuts would also acknowledge that they are also supporting to cut 30.000 lifes short....

notaflyingmonkey Tue 30-May-17 08:06:24

Because who cares about the weak and vulnerable in this society. They have no voice, and have conveniently been painted as 'scroungers'.

The Nazi's were less subtle, but had the same approach.

cdtaylornats Tue 30-May-17 08:11:12

One of the authors was described as "geographer royal by appointment to the left" and the other as "an outspoken Remain campaigner who has written blogs on the dire consequences of leaving the EU."

BluePeppers Tue 30-May-17 08:11:27

Re not realising
Anyone who has had any dealing with the NHS recently will be able to know that.

6 weeks wait afer surgery for a hip replacement mean that, for an elderly person, they are unlikely to ever walk again.
6 weeks wait to see a dietecian after surgery means that it will impede the reason recovery.
My dad is a on a special diet for his diabetes. Which includes no sugar etc... On the ward, his menus included cake and ice cream for dessert (no fruit option), white pasta etc... Thanksfully, he was there for a short period but what if he had been there for longer??
I have a relative who has cancer. He has been waiting for 2 months to get his results from an MRI scan to see th cancer had spread. (As in two months later, the CONSULTANT still hadnt received them).

The NHS is so thin on the ground that the life saving work is being done (eg the open heart surgery my mum had). All the rest, incl the follow ups of that is reduced to next to nothing. Now my mum has always been very string and in good shape. She has recovered. I suspect that others in the ward wont be doing as well sad
Its true for proper diet advice on eating when you have diabetes etc etc btw which would save life and money by avoiding amputations, death, getting blind etc....

BluePeppers Tue 30-May-17 08:13:39

The NHS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
The last of investment dates way back the EU, about 7 years ago when Cameron became PM.

It would be nice not to mix up issues as to try and taint whoever has done the study.

Besides, if there are 30.000 more deaths, they are there. Its not something you can imagine sad

BeyondThePage Tue 30-May-17 08:14:14

"expenditure failed to keep pace with demand"

I'm not surprised. Demand is through the roof. At least they are trying to ameliorate the social care side. (which was not separated from the NHS primary care side for this article)

I know it is an unpopular view, but "social care" implies something done by society, for society, not something that should be or has to be done by the government. Folks used to take care of their old, not dump those care needs on the state.

But everybody is too busy nowadays - and no one wants to pay. People say they do, but then we have the evidence that no, they don't really - with fewer votes for the tax increasing parties.

Veterinari Tue 30-May-17 08:24:51

One of the authors was described as "geographer royal by appointment to the left"

Yes and that 'joking remark by a newspaper columnist' (see I can read Wikipedia too) hardly undermines his extensive academic and research career - or do you perhaps think these two things are equivalent cdraylornats?

and the other as "an outspoken Remain campaigner who has written blogs on the dire consequences of leaving the EU."

Please explain how his viewpoints on an unrelated political issue allow him to fudge data on 30,000 deaths from before the referendum and get that data past numerous peer-reviewers and an academic journal editor? Or is not what you're implying?

Yes researchers are human and yes of course they have personal viewpoints on political issues. That hardly means that the peer-reviewed scientific evidence they produce is not valid - unless you're also a republican who thinks climate change is political hoax as well?

BluePeppers Tue 30-May-17 08:32:46

Beyond I think there are several issues there
1 is the fact that other counties do manage to lok afetr the sick and the elderly wo leaving 30.000 people to die unnecessarily. So why cant we? Do we have such an elderly population? Nope, no more than any other european countries.
2 the issue isntthat we havent increased money in line with the demand. Its also that we've actually REDUCED the amount available per person AND that we haven't increased that amount inline with inflation.

I woud really someone to explain to me why some countries such as Italy/France/Germany can cope but we don't.

Casschops Tue 30-May-17 08:37:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MakeJam Tue 30-May-17 08:39:02

"expenditure failed to keep pace with demand"

Erm... no expenditure was deliberately cut by the Tory government.

cdtaylornats Tue 30-May-17 08:41:20

BluePeppers do you know what makes the health industry unique?

It is the only industry where new technology makes things more expensive.

DancingLedge Tue 30-May-17 08:42:57

We can't have a health system that can cope unless we spend the same sort of amount as percentage of GDP as other advanced countries. It's as simple as that.
Cuts and cuts and reorganisations are slashing the NHS to a terrifying degree.

OCSockOrphanage Tue 30-May-17 08:51:24

We all die. Statistically, the old and the sick die in the greatest numbers. There will never be enough money to stop people dying, even if the NHS were the only enterprise in the UK.

Artisanjam Tue 30-May-17 09:00:17

These are 'excess deaths' i.e. Ones which the authors claim would not have happened if the NHS had been staffed to the levels the hospitals expected (i.e. job vacancies had been filled and sufficient shift cover was available).

This is a political choice exacerbating natural causes. It isn't 'just' natural causes.

Casschops Tue 30-May-17 09:02:16

Really apologies if I have appeared to hi jack this thread. It is meant to be my AIBU but my phone is dodgy. I have asked for it to be deleted.

Xenophile Tue 30-May-17 09:03:17

We all die. Statistically, the old and the sick die in the greatest numbers. There will never be enough money to stop people dying, even if the NHS were the only enterprise in the UK.

Oh well, that's all ok then. 30,000 needless and preventable deaths are nothing because they were going to die at some point anyway.

Nothing to see, move along.

Jellymuffin Tue 30-May-17 09:06:02

The government are making life unbearable for large swathes of the workforce too
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/primary-school-teachers-suicide-rate-double-national-average-uk-figures-a7635846.html%3Famp
I'm a teacher and have to say the crushing anxiety of having massive accountability and no control is felt by all in the profession. That helpless feeling of being a political football without any concern for the people it impacts is similar for the disabled too.

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