to wonder about Mary and Joseph? [Thread title edited by MNHQ]

[Charingcrossbun]

If Mary and Joseph are married then isn't it odd that she is a virgin?
Am I being ignorant? Was it a shotgun post preggo wedding? Or are they not married and she is a single mum?
Not questioning the religious side (or trying to be offensive) just wondering about their relationship?

[Toadinthehole]

Zzzzzzzz.

[ClashCityRocker]

I thought this. Realistically, she wouldn't be a virgin.

Also, it's the lamest excuse in the world. Can you imagine that one on Jeremy Kyle....

'How can you be pregnant? We've not even had sex!'

'God put it there. It's the son of God'

Tis a good job they didn't have DNA testing in those days...

[Lagoonablue]

It's a story........

[ClashCityRocker]

Ah a quick google reveals they were betrothed when she found out she was preggers. And and angel came and bollocked Joseph into marrying her anyway.

And they had four other sons (no daughters though) together.

I wonder if she had morning sickness?

[Charingcrossbun]

Thanks lagoon; I realise it's a story, I was just wondering if there was a reason given for her being a Virgin.

[FayKorgasm]

How did she get on and off that donkey for all those pee breaks.

[wigornian]

Pretty purile, and misinformed:

LUKE: "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary."

Joseph and Mary were engaged, not married at that time, Joseph was concerned about a scandal but by Gods grace all was well.

Furthermoe Jesus had half-siblings borne both to Mary and Joseph were married.

[MardyBra]

"Not questioning the religious side (or trying to be offensive)"

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it. What exactly are you questioning then? Although I'm not religious but I think your thread is potentially offensive to those who are.

[NorwaySpruce]

Did you not pay much attention in Religious Studies\world religion classes OP?

[Tzibeleh]

It's a mistake in translation. The original Aramaic word simply means an unmarried woman.

Besides, they got married after the Annunciation.

The concept of illegitimacy being a baby born out of wedlock is a Christian idea. Before that, illegitimacy was only the result of an unlawful union, eg incest or adultery. Being ahead of your marriage vows was not actually that big a deal.

[LaurieFairyCake]

The reason she was a Virgin was to show a supernatural event and bring faith to Joseph and challenge social mores etc.

God appeared to Mary so she believed, then the Spirit appeared to Joseph to tell him too.

It's a great story and I love it when it's done realistically in a play as people are no different back then as they are now.

God: voice from nowhere "you're having a baby that you heard about, that's coming to change things"

Mary: "fuck off, are you serious?!?!! I'm a virgin and Joseph will never believe that shit as we've barely spoken"!

God: "Alright, I'll send someone to have a chat, stop going on"

[ClashCityRocker]

I think the most interesting question is whether Jesus was a Virgin.

It would be quite odd in the times, I think, to be an unmarried Jew? Particularly as the first born son.

I know I've probably read too much Dan Brown

[NoLongerTheSeasonToBeJolly]

YABU
Not questioning the religious side (or trying to be offensive), yeah right.

[Toadinthehole]

It was (I understand) unusual for a rabbi to be unmarried and Jesus was considered one. There are traditions that Jesus might have been married going right back to Biblical times: it isn't something dreamed up by Dan Brown or Leigh Baigent. However, they have always been contrast to the orthodox view.

[wigornian]

Ah, Tzibeleh, yes, sorry you're right, I remember reading this a few years back, actually means "maiden" or something like that. Merry Christms all.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Jesus was most likely married and had children. No Christian would have a problem with that. The problem is that in the past the Catholic Church thought people would have a problem with it so texts relating to it were kept quiet.

[Toadinthehole]

That isn't really true. The predominance of early writings on Jesus doesn't support the view that he married and had kids. Every now and again, some book gets published that claims to have made some sensational discovery, but invariably they are based on texts that Biblical scholars have known about for decades or even centuries. There was one just the other week in fact.

There is a belief that right from the word go, the early church recognised Christ as God incarnate, therefore making it a bit wierd that he might have been married. In fact, it took the early church an age to work out just who they believed Christ was. If there had been a strong tradition that Christ was married, it would have been quite plausable for the early Church to accept that. Remember that Christianity is Judaism + Hellenism, and the Greeks were pretty comfortable with the idea of gods getting married and breeding with mortals. In fact, Christianity has the latter anyway.

[ClashCityRocker]

See that's what I find interesting - not the theological side (although that is interesting) but the manipulation of the church doctrine.

[adsy]

Go on, say something about Mohammed having erection problems. Dare you.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

Maiden does imply virgin though.

[DrDre]

Joseph had a raw deal. All the responsibilities of parenthood but no sex!

[MardyBra]

at adsy

[LaurieFairyCake]

Joseph got loads of shags! They had 4/5 further children.

[Iggly]

Anyone who thinks that the bible is an accurate reflection of what happened thousands of years ago...... I better not say.

I'm sure that the facts were lost in the telling, retelling and translayions etc. Plus a few fairy tale additions.

I reckon Mary was no virgin! She just didn't want to tell the truth that she'd shacked up with a man calling himself God.