quick Q on flexible working

[blackberryway]

I have just had my request for flexible working refused. The HR person who did the interview lists in his reasons for refusal, along with business reasons, his assessment that I 'don't have childcare issues' because my partner does not work at the same time as I do.

Can he make these judgements? I thought the employer could only assess a case by looking at the business needs versus employee request.

Was your manager not involved? Very strange if so. How does the HR person even know what your partner is up to?

If you make a flexible working request under the legislation it has to be for the purposes of caring for a child. Does he perhaps think that isn't the case?

that is not a good reason for a request to be refused - there must be economic/business grounds why it cannot be accommodated and these must be explained to you. I would appeal. (I work in HR)

Your application can only be refused for one of these reasons

Your manager should have held the meeting with HR present.

I would appeal on these grounds.

Agree with Flowery though - do you need childcare when you're working if your partner is off?

twinterror blackberryway doesn't indicate that valid business reasons weren't given, so I would assume they were. It sounds as though the childcare was an additional reason.

The fact that the HR person queried the childcare issue at all indicates to me that he didn't believe the request was valid in the first place, as to fall under the legislation it must be made for the purposes of caring for a child. Whether he was justified in believing that I don't know, as normally someone wouldn't have that intimate knowledge of an employee's partner's whereabouts, and I would say he didn't raise the issue in the best way either.

blackberryway assuming the request is for the purposes of caring for your child, and you wish to appeal the decision, you can of course confirm that in the appeal, along with anything you wish to say about the business reasons given.

If the HR person shouldn't have known/found out in some underhand way about your partner's activities, then of course you can consider complaining about that as well.

Hi all - sorry to have posted and gone,childcare issues called! Thanks very much for your responses.
Taking it from the top...my manager was not involved because this person in HR is designated to consider all Flexible Working requests. I don't know why it is done that way - presumably to ensure all requests are judged in the same way
My request is based on my need to care for my dc on one night of the week when my partner is frequently away (I work nights). I explained this in the interview but this person has formed his own opinion that if my partner is not working then I don't have an issue.

I am appealing on the grounds that the business reasons given (which are on your list thanks Detox) don't stand up. I feel I have a pretty good case but I have no idea how unbiased the appeal will be.
That's why I queried his comment that I haven't got childcare issues because from what I can tell from repeated reading of info on the legislation, I only need to meet the requirement of having a child under 16 in order make the request. ie I don't have to 'make a case' for how urgent my childcare issues are since this would involve the employer in making subjective decisions which could lead to disparity of treatment in different cases. If I am right on that then I will certainly make a complaint about it if (when) my appeal fails.

It doesn't depend how urgent or otherwise your childcare needs are, no, but it's not as simple as having the right to make a request just because you have a child either. The request needs to be for the purposes of caring for that child.

You can point out in your appeal that your request is for the purposes of caring for your child, as the legislation requires, so once that is established, the only thing the employer needs to do is consider the viability of the request from a business point of view.

Thanks flowery, I think I have got it straight now. I made it clear in the interview that my request was for the purposes of caring for my child so this person had no right to comment further. I think he has probably been doing this for a while - basically trying to tell people how they should organise their lives and rejecting perfectly do-able requests. Other people just put up with it but I always stick up for my rights where I can. Even though my employer is entitled to ascertain whether my request is for childcare purposes they aren't entitled to say that my partner should be available for childcare at any time that he is not working.

I wish I could be more optimistic about the appeal but I've got a feeling this is going to be a long haul. I work for a big, well-known company and their employee relations are notoriously crap. I rang the working families helpline the other day and when I said who I worked for the woman on the phone heaved a sigh and said 'oh yes we get lots of calls about them' Any advice on what the next step should be if my appeal is turned down?

Is your manager supportive of your request? It's very strange not to have your manager involved in hearing your request and making the decision.

Assuming your manager is supportive, I would make that a key part of your appeal. Your manager is in the best position to decide whether and how your request will work, not some random person from HR who doesn't know your job and doesn't work with you. Managers can and should take advice from HR to ensure consistency and to ensure procedures are followed but it's entirely inappropriate for HR to be hearing the request and making the decision.

Add to that any procedural problems and of course any information you have refuting the business grounds given.

If the appeal is turned down you have two options. If you feel the refusal was based on inaccurate information, or the procedure wasn't followed properly, you can take it to a tribunal, however a tribunal would only force your employer to hear the request again and do it properly, they don't decide what the outcome should be.

The alternative is considering a case for indirect sex discrimination. The thing is once you start bringing discrimination claims your relationship with your employers will go sharply downhill, meaning you may not be able to work there, it will take ages and be stressful and expensive.

Are there any compromises you could consider?

Hmmm...funnily enough I did make the same query to my manager as I noticed that it said on the front of the request form that it should be forwarded to the manager. Perhaps it was in the past, I'm not sure. There have been some significant changes in the last couple of years with a lot of managers complaining that they are no longer trusted to 'manage' as such -just used to pass on orders/information from higher management. So even though my manager is sympathetic he is also pretty powerless to intervene. I wonder if I could ask him to accompany me to the appeal?

HR is based in the building on the same floor as all the employees who are all doing exactly the same job. This HR person is also responsible for determining staffing levels and advertising vacancies so on the whole it makes sense for him to also be responsible for assessing flexi requests. Unfortunately he is also a notoriously self-serving hard-nosed git.
I did suggest some compromises at the interview in terms of different hours I could work but he made no mention of them when rejecting my request. I wonder whether I could suggest a trial period at the appeal since the business reasons he listed can't really be said to be valid unless they've been tested in practice. What do you think?

I'm not keen on either a tribunal (have had experience of that in the past and it was awful) or trying for sex discrimination which I think would be very hard to prove and as you say involve expense which I really can't afford. I think the only other option would be a grievance about the way the request was handled.

What are you asking for, what do you currently do (hours etc) and what are they suggesting?

Flowery - just thought of another Q when you've got a mo'. At the appeal, when I argue against the business reasons given in the rejection letter, is my employer able to raise new business reasons to refuse me or can they only go by those already given? Appreciate the help you've given so far.

Yes trial period a good idea. Can only benefit you really, as you have an opportunity to prove it will work well and make it very difficult for them to refuse.

No if they are going to refuse your request on business grounds they should say all of those business grounds now, they can't start adding things later on.

Thanks again Flower.