Eaten bread is soon forgotten - Parental leave experiences

[MILFintraining]

I've recently applied for parental leave (my company refused my request to reduce by hours by 4.5 a week).
My parental leave request was refused, verbally, and not following the necessary procedures. I offered compromise (to drop it from 2 weeks to 1 week). That was refused. I can force it in December,as I put in for it earlier this month.
I went too see the HR manager to discuss my options.
Because I used the term "legal rights" and "can I force it this year?" I was told I was aggressive.
I got a lecture on the importance of achieving my goals, being professional, how I'm already compressing a full years holidays into 9 months.
Also, I feel my commitment has been called into question - I was more or less told that absences can go against me if any internal promotion comes up. Now, I was told my first day back I have no chance of any promotion where I am, as the overpaid senior managers feel there is a glut of senior grades already there (apart from them). While I fully accept that the longer you're out of the office, the fewer achievements you are likely to log, I'm amazed that a max of 13 weeks PL over five years would have such a detrimental impact on my career.
I'll get back with my manager to negotiate. however, after 5 years service, having had holidays cancelled and voluntarily cancelled days off, doing buckets unpaid overtime (a lot while I was heavily pregnant) it sticks in my craw to have my commitment questioned.
What really gets me is that I was willing to reduce it to a week this year. FFS, I could blag that in sickies and get paid. I don't want to do that, I want to use the appropriate channels that were designed for both working parents and employers.

Sorry, I'm at the wrong end of a bottle of wine and ranting. I'd be interested to hear other's experiences.

I thought with parental leave that although they were entitled to turn down the specific dates you initially request, they are required to come back to you with alternative dates, however this could be my employers more generous interpretation of the law.

I do sympathise, I would like to take some parental leave for DS starting full day preschool settling in, but as I'm currently going through process of permanently reducing my hours I have taken the decision to focus on that rather than the parental leave. In order to facilitate getting my hours reduced and hopefully to reduce some of the ongoing stress of working and balancing homelife I have taken a voluntary grade and salary drop mainly for my own peace of mind so I can turn down expectations of working additional hours and changing days off etc.

It stinks that they don't recognise the work you put in pre DC, but unfortunately the workplace is different from what it used to be where I think people looked more at what had happened over the long term, now it's very much about what you can do in the here and now and previous efforts do not count.

For yourself you seem to have got yourself into a very adversarial position with your employers. I have to say as a line manager my hackles would be right up if someone started talking about legal rights and forcing things through in an initial discussion about parental leave. I would also say that the minute you request to go part time and or request parental leave, then whilst promotion is not written off as an option, you do need to work twice as hard to show that you are still committed to work, and that's a decision that only you can take.

For me I have very much decided that my career is taking a back seat and I will keep on working, but with no expectation of advancing up the ladder whilst I have a young DC and a DH who works very long hours.

It's a personal choice and to some extent I feel sorry for employers and managers who have to work round our requests, be politically correct in their responses ( although clearly not an issue in your workplace) but generally don't get the staff in to replace someone working p/t or when away on parental leave. It's an ongoing dilemma and I don't think we have things sorted out right yet in the UK.

I didn't use that language with my line manager, just merely said I wanted time to consider my position.
I've been told that there's no chance of promotion anyway, as there's too many senior grades, so that's not a big issue for me.

It sounds as though they haven't treated you particularly well in general, however I do agree with rookie that talking about 'legal rights' and 'forcing' it (doesn't matter whether it was to the HR manager or your line manager) isn't likely to help make them more acccommodating. You do have rights but a good relationship with your employer will help you more.

I would have suggested when they turned down your request for parental leave, that you politely in writing should have requested details of the reasons why your parental leave wasn't convenient at that time, plus confirmation of the dates they are postponing it to.

They have a right to postpone it, not to decline it, so a polite letter requesting the new dates and reasons why not convenient now would have been my advice.

However badly they've behaved the problem is if you want to salvage a reasonable working relationship, you may have to 'walk back' a bit of the tone you've taken at this stage.

Thanks for the advice.
I appreciate the input. I do have a cordial relationship with said line manager, and I do accept that it's not going to make life easier if there is direct confrontation. While I think she has been hugely inappropriate in her response and attitude, she is in a position of power over me, like it or not.

I'm going to see her Tuesday.
Emphasise commitment to job. Print off PDP and highlight timeframe of goals to show I'm sincere about achieving them this year. Discuss resourcing bottlenecks I have experienced in 4th qtr to demonstrate that problems I have found in the past will not coincide with leave.
Explain nicely my personal situation - working full time, no family support, having had one seizure which had a major impact on day to day practicalities I need to ensure I do my utmost to ensure I'm not in a position where I'm feeling sick and weak driving 40 miles a day.
Emphasise benefits - I come back refreshed, which will be beneficial in terms of productivity, engagement etc.

• Point out that I have agreed in principle to some travel this year, though it doesn't hugely suit, and it's likely I'll have to juggle time at month end to co-ordinate deadlines with the Europe. Basically point out that I am doing my best to be flexible with the needs of the department.

I will say, I went to HR to clarify my legal rights as they were not explained in the meeting with my manager - as it happened I interpreted the company policy correctly, but I did want advice as to whether I was doing so. However, though my tone was quiet and non confrontational, I admit that using the phrase "force it" wasn't the best choice of words.

My understanding is that the legislation dictates it's only 4 weeks a year max Mjinhiding. Therefore, I think you can only have 8 weeks max for your DS2, so you'll have to work round 21 weeks in total.

The leave can be taken after the 5th birthday if the company postpone it, but I'd get it in sooner rather than later.

It's until the child hits 5.

Good point though. So, say for arguments sake your DS is 5 on 30th June 2012.
I would say you could take 4 weeks this year, next year, and the year after, but I'm open to correction.

Also, mjinhiding, take the advice I was given. I didn't realise when my manager told me verbally that she wasn't going to give it to me that she was legally required to give any reason for postponement in writing.

A year runs from when you became eligible to take leave - so if you were at the job for at least a year before you had your son, it's his birthday. If you hadn't, or you've changed jobs, it's the anniversary of that.

The advice isn't really contradictory. Employers can turn down applications for parental leave for business reasons, but they usually have difficulty showing any of those when someone has been off for a year and not yet returned, so you can use it to extend maternity leave in most cases.

Have you thought about a flexible working request for your term time working? Strictly speaking that's for permanent applications, but many employers will consider it for x years. I don't think you are going to get term time working approved using parental leave - as others have said, the leave can be postponed. You won't have certainty as each request is separate. Parental leave must be taken in blocks of full weeks, so you might not tally up with holidays.... It's not really what parental leave is designed to do.

Sorry, it makes no difference.

I think you need to think carefully about how realistic it is to use parental leave in this way. What is your workload like outside term times? Would your employer be supportive? Fundamentally, for any arrangment like this, you need them on side. They can postpone parental leave fairly easily, and hence totally undermine your plans. Worse, they could do it for a particular request, so you wouldn't have certainty that the arrangement would work all the times you wanted it to. I would suggest going back to the flexible working idea and really looking at how your job could work in the ways you want.

Ok, so there are bigger issues. Can I be really blunt? I think you've latched on to the idea of using parental leave because you want to be able to tell them "here is what I am doing. I have the legal right. You can't say no." (0k, not in so many words, but...)

I can understand that it is really scary, but you just have to grab the bull by the horns and think about a flexible working request. You need to put together a case for how the orgnanisation can agree your request and not have a detrimental effect on stakeholder service (e.g. development opportunities for juniors, cost saving of term time hours, more efficient working).

I'd also say to stop seeing hostility where there probably is none. Just because no one has been to see your daughter does not mean that your work don't value you - but to be honest, many of them probably don't really know you any more. Also, presumably it's a long journey for them too. Same goes for the 'no present' - not all colleagues do you know. Especially in this econmomic climate. That's not said to be harsh, but it's easy to lose perspective when you're at home...

Good luck MJ. I think ribena has very good points. To be fair, my interest in babies that were brought into site was minimal, I'd go up and say hi, but I wasn't clinging onto the sprog for dear life. Don't worry about hijacking thread, its' interesting to hear the experiences.

I met line manager today.
Had gone through PDP goals, pencilling in timeframe to show I was serious about achieving them.
Explained my case, how I was determined to achieve goals, how I was prepared to drop the 2 weeks to one week, how I'd be flexible with whatever time suited her. Told her that I realised taking an extra week off would necessitate overtime perchance, which I was prepared to do.
Pleaded how I have had one seizure, and how, though there are no medical indications that I'll have another, how it was a worry losing my licence, that I try not to let tiredness and stress build up, and the advantages of a week off back home are that I come home relaxed and productive.
She listened, then said "I hear what you're saying but I don't wnat people taking time off more than what is necessary so no."

Meeting HR tomorrow.My dad thinks I should just drop this, as he thinks it's causing undue stress. It is horrible, but I've had the feeling they're trying to edge me out since I got back, and I feel this is really making a statement.