Work Expenses

[samsonthecat]

I wonder if anyone can give us some advice please? DH's work have just decided that instead of paying fixed daily rate expenses when they travel they are going to pay actual expenses. As far as we can understand he has to hand in his receipts and make a claim. However when he is away our child care bill is much higher because he always does morning drop off on his way to work where as I leave for work much earlier. I feel that the child care is an "actual" expense of DH being away and don't see why we should be out of pocket for him to travel for work. However he doesn't think his work will pay for the extra childcare we need.
At the moment this is not an issue because the fixed daily rate covers his hotel, food etc and our extra childcare costs. I am really at a loss what to do about this and would appreciate some advice please.

I am not an expert but interested in this.

My work has always paid actual expenses. I incur them and then claim them back with receipts. My DP is pretty much a full time SAHD otherwise the amount of travel I can do would be very much restricted.

Having childcare costs covered by work when travelling sounds like a fantastic benefit tbh. I hope you don't lose it...but it sounds as though the costs will be significantly lower for the company when they move to paying actual expenses. I have never heard of an employer assuming any financial responsibility for your family arrangements when you travel for work, although you would think a "family-friendly policy" would have some relevance to this.

Perhaps you could just submit the additional childcare costs as a receipt along with everything else? (or perhaps that sounds a bit MP)

Are your DHs expenses taxed?

Would love to hear from an expert as to whether changing this over counts as reducing pay or changing T&Cs?

Same as AllarmBells, I'm not an expert, but I'd be very surprised if he is able to claim for the additional childcare costs, particularly as the additional burden is really due to your working hours IYSWIM. I would imagine it's just one of those things you have to just accept.

I dont think childcare will be covered either, lots of people have to use childcare in order to work - its a family expense rather than an employer expense.

As its not actual salary but just a policy I believe they can amend.

But the additional cost is not due to my working hours, it is due to him being away. What about claiming babysitting costs for the evenings I need to go out? Or do his employers just have to expect me to have no life when he is away?

Won't really know what is and is not covered until you try to claim for things. So why not get your childcare provider to provide some form of receipt for that additional time and submit it along with all the other receipts.

Then the ball is in the employers court - they can decide if they will or won't pay that additional cost that is incurred as part of your DH being away.

er yes you can't claim babysitting costs while he's away so you can go out!

and you are unlikely to be able to claim childcare costs for the early mornings either

'Or do his employers just have to expect me to have no life when he is away? '

You're joking, right?
Er, nope, his employers expect you to fund your own babysitters and childcare expenses.

Look at it this way, if your DH started work at the same time as you normally, you would always be paying more. You're just lucky he does a later start which saves you a bit of money usually. It doesn't make it the employers responsibility to top you up just because he's working away!!

I think you have been lucky so far that the expenses cover your childcare, but why should they?

I need to send DS2 to kids club for two evenings but I wouldn't say to my employer that they need to pay because I have to work till 5.00pm.

You need to readjust your household budget.

I do agree with you Samson. Expenses are often a bit rotten when you think about them.
Eg. why should people have to subsidise their employer by incuring expenses in advance on their credit cards?

It might be worth either

a) putting it through as an expense and see what they say. Although since the MP thing this seems to be seen as a bit off, it's what I've always done. I have assumed either my manager when she authorises, or accounts when they check them, would say if I claimed for something I can't have and not pay it.

b) asking them formally via HR to pay this as a genuine expense of him travelling for work. Whether it is worth your DH sticking his head above the parapet in this way I really don't know. Flowery or Ribena might be able to shed some light on whether family-friendly policies would ever extend to actually paying out money, or whether they are more about flexible working time etc.

The employer isn't expecting that you have no life while he's away - they just aren't thinking about the effect of work travel on families at all. And in my experience (and it seems in violethill's too) that's just how expenses work.

But that doesn't make it right. I do agree that you have some right on your side - I've just never heard of a company seeing it that way. But that may be because in the companies I've worked in, no-one has ever asked...

If the expense is justifiable then put in a claim and see what happens. With regard to babysitting - if you say go to a weekly evening class for which your DH would usually care for your children, his being away will affect your ability to attend that class. Therefore submit a claim for the childcare for that class (or a claim for the cost of the class, as you will be missing it through no fault of your own).
The company may refuse to pay the claim... but you won't know until you try to claim. As long as you can prove that the cost would not have been incurred if your DH was not away on a work trip AND that the event happens on a very regular basis (so isn't just a case of you wanting a night out due to DH being away) then submit a claim and see what happens.

The employer has probably not thought about the knock on effects of their employee being away from their family. Even if they decide that they won't pay... may get them to think about the knock on effect of these trips.

From the sounds of it frequent travel may be part of your DH's job and thus may be something mentioned in his Contract. So I feel the company could argue that DH was made aware that frequent travel would be necessary and thus they won't pay out claims for childcare. Fair enough, doubt they could be forced to pay... doesn't stop you asking them to pay though.

DH has, and I used to have, a job where we would often be away at short notice, or have early starts and late finishes.

I would say that the expense situation that your DH has at the moment is very generous and fortunate, and that what they are proposing is more "normal". It may be worth your DH suggesting a "displacement" allowance for the knock on effects of his being away. By separating actual expenses and something to cover the inconvinience of his being away, then they may be more ammenable to considering it. Make a list of reasonable costs that DH being away incurrs- wrap around childcare; babysitter for important commitments (why do you need to go out in the evenings? School govenor? Evening classes? Elderly parents to look after) and present to your DH's employer in a calm manner. TBH though (as a manager, parent and former worker-away) I would be surprised if they paid any extra. But no harm in asking.

My employer pays PTers childcare costs if they ask you to come in on an extra day, so there is hope!

Thanks for the replies. It has given me food for thought. The reason I have to go out in the evenings is that I am a member of 2 bands which rehearse once a week. If I don't go then I am letting other people down and won't be prepared for concerts etc.
I think we'll just have to submit the expenses as a claim and see how it goes.

If he's public sector there may well be an allowance for 'additional childcare expenses' - if the child has to be dropped off earlier because he's away I'd expect that to count.

But it's for occasional use, not 'regular' travel which you're expected to work around.

You should ask him to look at the guidance for what is covered. I have claimed childcare expenses in the past but they were due to my employer wanting me to do extra hours / travel away from home. So, while I normally collected my DS from school, if I worked extra hours to stay for a meeting I claimed for a CM to collect. Should say I didn't claim any extra hours or overtime, just took the time back in time off in lieu which did not benefit me in saving childcare costs. Must say I wouldn't have dreamed of asking for them to pay for a babysitter for the evening so my DH could go out socially although if I had to go out in the evening on business myself I would be happy to claim. Rather than just submitting a receipt I have always checked first before taking on the extra work, that way if they had said they wouldn't pay for childcare I could say I wouldn't do the extra work (this never happened). However, in my case it was over and above the requirements of my job, not sure if this is the case in your DH's case.

Hi,

I am in a similar situation. I work part time, and my last manager was happy to pay childcare expenses when I incurred extra childcare expenses when I worked outside my normal hours. My current manager is not. On my mormal working days, I obviously pay for my childcare expenses. Some days I need to come in for meetings, and sometimes I travel leaving early in th mornong, returning late at night, and have to pay school club or childminder until my husband can pick up the kids after his work. If I am flexible, and am prepared to work at times/ days in addition to my contracted hours, is it unreasonable to expect my employer to pay these costs? My current manager has said that if I pursue this through HR, "my career prospect could be limited". At present HR does not have a policy on this issue.

Your situation at the moment is incredibly generous I'm afraid, and childcare does not fall within expenses.

Expenses are the direct out of pocket costs of doing your job - travel, food whilst away, etc. It does not extend (and I'm not trying to comment on the feminist question of whether it should) to knock on costs you incur because of your personal or home life.

Your DH's employer won't be able to pay childcare costs as expenses, I shouldn't think. If they do, I think it's a taxable benefit, so paying it as a simple refund would infringe tax rules [disclaimer- am not a tax lawyer!].That's where displacement or other allowances come in, because I assume that, if those are designed to cover more than the direct costs of travel, food, etc, they are put through PAYE on the balance.

Look at it from the viewpoint of a single parent. Would you expect the employer to pay all childcare because the employee couldn't work without it? What you are asking for is essentially a similar request.

Sorry, I know that that won't be what you want to hear.

The problem is that business expenses have to be "wholly, necessarily and exclusively" incurred for the purpose of the business. There is no way that childcare costs are ever going to be a tax allowable expense because of a number of years of tax law about duality of purpose - also covers things like clothing, housing and lots of other things.

However that is not to say that a company cannot pay such costs if it chose to do so. If it did though the costs paid would be treated as "income" and subject to tax and NICs. The Revenue do not stop companies from paying such items - they simply require that they be accounted for properly by being put through payroll and taxed accordingly. So in order to provide a net amount of £100 the company would have to put £169 though payroll (for a 40% taxpayer) or £147 (for a basic rate taxpayer).

I suspect your dh's company has been subject to a tax audit by HMRC as it is extremely rare these days to find a flat rate allowance and any that are paid should go through payroll. The company has probably had to pay a settlement to HMRC and are now required to put in place proper expense procedures to show that they only pay actual expenses or put such allowances through payroll.

On a different matter if your dh's company does not currently offer childcare vouchers as an option it may be worth asking them to consider setting up a scheme. Such schemes normally do not cost the company anything as the costs are covered by NIC savings to the company but mean that the employee can take £243 a month of salary as tax and NIC free. Most companies do this by way of salary sacrifice - i.e. you give up £243/month of salary and get given £243 of childcare vouchers instead. However the £243 of vouchers is not taxable or subject to NICS so you have £243 to pay for childcare whereas if you took normal salary you would only have cash of £165 (basic rate taxpayer) or £143 (40% tax payer).

If you had tax free childcare vouchers then that might help mitigate the effect of losing the round sum allowance.