Message for Flowerybeanbag and ribeanaberry - or anyone else that can help

[JJnewday]

Hi Girls,

I have posted about my issues before and received some really helpful advice from both of you - Unfortunaly I then was without a PC for sometime and when I logged back onto the site to refer to your responses. I can no longer find the thread I started - I have contacted Mumsnet but they can't find my threads either

ANyway I hope you will help me again????!!??

Here is my story:

While Pregnant I was signed off of work with High Blood Pressure at the beginning of may 2009

on the 14th May I received a letter saying That following a New UK structure for the company and business teams being being disbanded their is a need to intergrate the team and restructure.

Affected employees (including myself) would go into a collective consultation process with representatives from the Employee National forum......This was basically a forum that we would raise any questions to.

The letter then goes on to say Following the collective consultation process should an employee be put at risk of redundancy, a period of individual consultation will commence with your line manager and HR.

This Person turned out to be me

There were 3 of us doing these roles - they have not changed the job title - there were still three roles available but following the dissolving of the other department it was deemed that 1 of these people would map into these 3 roles (this person had a different job title at the time) hence 4 people into 3 roles. (This person still had to go through same process as the rest of us) As I said I a was part time all other 3 full time employees.

The selection Critera was to be based on appraisals, sickness and 70% on a presentation that you would be given 1 days notice to prepare. I spoke to the doctors about this and they said to avoid stress - I would find this very stressful

I asked the following qestions of the consultative forum

If I am off sick and unable to take part in the selection process what happens?
answer - Selection Criteria will be applied and the descision comunicated accordingly.

I currently work part time - If they make my current position full time, will I be offered a part time alternative?
answer - the positions moving forward are not yet fully defined, this will be considered on an individual basis if required.

I made clear that I would find the presentation process extremly stressful (although never in writing)

ANyway they changed the selction critea and lumped the 70% presentation onto the appraisal grade.

I believe as the person doing this was the person who did the appraisals he would have known who was going before even looking at the appraisals.

Incidently my appraisal was done by a person I had worked for for about 5 months. One of the the people had there appraisal done by someone else another was new to the company and had only worked there for a few months.
Funnily enough after I had been told I was selected for redundancy I received an e-mail asking me to sign of my appraisal if I agreed with the grades? Haha obviously I didn't I was not going to sign off something that effectivly made me redundant.

I went on Maternity leave 8th June
Advised I was selected for Redundancy 11th June and received a letter on the 23rd June 2009 confirming this - Basically It says

'After a period of Collective consultation, with the Staff Representatives fromt he National forum, an objective selection critiria was agreed and applied to all the involved managers. This has resulted in you being selected for redundancy. As you are currently on Maternity leave, we will commence formal consultation with you upon your return to work, where we will formally consult with you and look to redeply you.

While I have been on maternity I have not be told about any suitable roles. Infact I have not been contacted at all, at he end of my 6montth, before I extended I phoned my manager to see if there were any suitable jobs for me.

I am now due back to work early next month and have been invited in for a meeting, I have spoken to cab, acas and a solicitor at a law centre all of whom say they should have offered me one of the jobs or a suitable alternative.

II loved this company I have worked there for 15 years and was very loyal. It saddens me that I am in this situation, but I am. I do not now want to return to this company but I can not accept the redundany they have offered as it is stautory only and will not keep me going for long, I was the highest earner in our family and we could not manage for long.

What I want to know is If I take them to a tribunal have I a case? I want them to make me a more resonable offer and I will walk away? How likely is this?

I am happy to pay to get legal advised but can't really afford to do it if they are going to say its not worth it you won't get much.

Hope this makes sense and that you can offer me some help

one thread

other thread

Just did a search against your name with no date or topic parameters, took about 30 secs!

Do you have legal cover on your house insurance? If so you will probably be covered for this.

If you bring a tribunal claim for sex discrimination they may well increase their offer, yes. It will depend among other things on how strong their solicitor feels your case is, how convinced they are that you are willing to go all the way, and how much they want to get rid of the problem rather than fighting it.

Have you put in any kind of appeal or grievance yet? Before bringing a legal claim you'll need to go through an internal process first.

OMG - Can't believe you found it - thank you so much, no I just search under threads I started and nothing - even the customer services team on here could not find it...haha, they should be paying you!!

I don't know about the legal cover will check. When I go in for the meeting how do you think I should play it, should I just see what they have to say and then leave and send a letter or should I tell them that I am going to raise a grievance.

What I am worried about is if I tell them that I am going to raise a grievance before the 30days notice is up and they actually make me redundant, then they may find me a job, and I don't want that - also if they find me a job, does that mean I will lose the statutory redundancy offer they have made and I would have to resign??

See what they say at the meeting first. You don't know at this stage whether they will offer you a job or not. Yes they haven't followed the correct procedure but until you know what they are intending to do now you won't know what to put in your grievance.

See what they say and put in a grievance once you know.

If they offer you a suitable job, you will probably lose your entitlement to redundancy, yes.

Ok I will attend the meeting and see what happens, d I not have the right ot refuse the position and take the redundany then?

Looks like the best thing to do would be to wait till the end of the 30day notice period and then raise a grievance? then they can't quickly offer me a job - or is it too late to raise a grievance then.

The outcome I want is to be made redundant but with a better package, as what they have offered my for 15 years loyal service is I think not good enough...sadly!!

You can refuse the position if it is not 'suitable' which would be on the same terms and conditions as before and work that is suitable for you.

If there is a suitable job available, they will probably just not make you redundant.

If they say there is no work available and make you redundant, you are probably best to put in an appeal rather than a grievance really. It would be all the same stuff but because you are doing it as a protest at being dismissed, it would be a bit of a combined appeal against your dismissal/grievance about your treatment.

please contact me and I'll give you 30 minutes or so of free legal advice. Back in my office on 7th June though as I am now away for half term.

best wishes

Thank you so much that is so kind of you - How do I go about contacting you, can you give me your phone number please? where do you work?

Emplawyer - are you back?

Also does anyone actually know what happens if you do take an employer to a tribunal and are successful? do they then have to in my case give you your job back give you a pay out?

I am trying to weigh up whether it is worth the hassle and the stress if I am unlikely to get much more money etc....

Hi Flowerybeanbag & Ribenaberry,

So I have now been in for 2 of my consulation meetings my next one is 2 weeks on Tuesday when they will formally make me redundant.

They have not offered me any other positions and they have told me that if I see a job that I would like to apply for internally they will help me by asking the recruiting manager to call me, but that I have to apply in te same way as everyone else? is this correct?

I also raised with them that no-one had contacted me while I was off and I had not been kept upto date of any vacancies even though our redundancy procedure said I should. My HR officer said while he was in agreement that they should have been better communication the outcome would have been the same as there have been no suitable alternatives in the time I have been off, he then went on to say that is what would be looked at in a tribunal and he was certain that the company was not exposed on this.

Since the 30 day consultaion started they were supposed to be sending me the vacancies weekly (as my company laptop is not working - they know this) they missed 2 of them for which I had to chase, I just feel I have been treated badly through this whole thing. The HR officer said that if I am unhappy I sould raise a grievence and it will be looked into - but he has made me feel like I would be wasting my time and I am moaning about nothing...I just don't know what to do!

Is it time to cut my loses and walk away do you think?

Never cut and walk. Yes you do need to apply like everyone else but you should usually be given special consideration (esp as its going to cost to get rid of you).

The bad communication would be relevant to how a Tribunal perceived them, but they are right that, if there are no vacancies anyway and they could prove better communication would not have made a difference, it might make no financial impact to the outcome of your claim.

You shouldn't be judged to the same standard as other people - employees at risk of redundancy should be given priority over anyone else, and women on maternity at risk of redundancy get priority of the redundancy group. However, it is pretty normal to ask you to 'apply' if it is a big orgnaisation and the manger doesn't know you - that's his best way of working out whether you are suitable for the job.

Have you seen any vacancies you are interested in?

Hi,

They have now offered to pay me a bit more money (not alot)but I will need to sign a compromise agreement.

Just wanted to check before I do that If I were to reject the offer and take to a tribunal - what are you likely to be paid? is it a small amount anyway??....should I think myself lucky and accept or should I stand firm and say I sould have been excluded from the selection process and been offered one of the positions....where does the law stand on this now, everyone I speak to seems to say different.

What would you be claiming? Have you actually missed out on any suitable vacancies or not, in other words would their lack of communication have made any difference?

Hi Flowery,

I have no way of know ing if I have missed out on any vacancies, but they are saying while they accept the communication has been poor - the outcome would have been the same as there has been no suitable vacancies.

I am still just not clear of they should have offered me one of the original positions without me having to go through selection.

I am nearly at the end of this process (tuesday) so I will be out of your hair soon...lol.

I do really appriciate your help