Is this legal? Or discrimination?

[DSM]

The company I work for are rebranding, and have issued a development plan, and I was copied in on the email.

I have to reapply for my job, and was basically almost guaranteed it.

The development plan states that the new manager will be 'ideally irish'.

Is this legal? Can they say that?

I'm not Irish, by the way.

It definitely can't go on the job ad that they successful applicant will be Irish! That's blatant discrimination!

I suppose if it's internal correspondence it's not breaking any laws but everyone with access on the development plan would be complicit in potential discrimination! I know this kind of thing happens and it is bad practice but it still goes on.

The only time it would become illegal is if it was advertised for an Irish person or if good candidates have been turned solely because they're not from the emarald isle!

No, surely not. HAve an undertstanding of Irish culture yes, have a knowledge of issues in ireland yes, but actually Irish, not unless you are an actor (who are exempt from sex/race discrimination)

It's not been advertised for an Irish person, there is no mention of country of origin on the advert!

I'm more than aware that people choose one person for a position over another for whatever reason, but to put it in black and White and send it round, even internally, is surely foolish.

If I don't get the job I could fight it on discriminatory grounds I assume. I don't see that someone could be better qualified for my job that I have been doing well for years, have won various company awards etc. But, I am not Irish..

My ds is Irish.. I lived there for 4 years. So knocking me back for a lack of 'irish knowledge' would be harsh, in my opinion.

DSM - is this job being advertised in Ireland?

A friend of mine was extremely put out at being asked if she was fluent in Irish when applying for a job in Cork (as an engineer). She felt it was discriminatory, as she is from NI, where Irish is not taught as standard. She looked into it, and I don't think Ireland has the same discrimination laws as the UK.

No - it's only being advertised in the uk afaik.

If this job is in the UK and being advertised in the UK it seems to defintely breach racial equality laws. I am surprised they actually placed an ad which is so blatantly racist. Do they have a HR dept?

You would definitely have grounds for taking them to an employment tribunal if you can prove they used racial grounds to decide not to offer you the job.

TYOTC - it is totally diferent to distinguish people on linguistic grounds (ie can they speak Irish? A recognised language which might be important in the job? Though not sure why) with "Are you Irish?"

My dh is from Belfast but regards himself as Irish (even though a NI Prostestant) and holds an Irish passport. But he couldn't apply for a job which wanted Irish language as a pre-requisite. Just as my children (in Scotland, educated in Ghaidlig/English) would be able to apply for jobs specifying Ghaidhlig (Scots Gaelic) which their peers could not, as they were educated solely in English.

language "discrimination" is not the same as other kinds, IMO.

Why do they want someone Irish?

It's not really different to discriminate on linguistic grounds if there is no legitimate requirement to have Irish (or any other language) as a language for the role. It is indirect discrimination, in that an Irish person is more likely to be able to meet the requirement than any other applicant.

I asked as I am aware this is common practice for many public sector jobs in South of Ireland.

It appears this is not the case for the OP - It is being advertised in the UK, and appears to be specifying Irish as a background, not a language.

I echo RibenaBerry - why are they saying they want someone Irish? [considers applying for job ]

Legally, they would need to specify and justify what particular aspect of the job requires Irishness and thus why the job could not adequately be done by a non-Irish person.

Can you explain??

There is absolutely no need for the ability to speak Irish.

They want someone Irish as the rebrand is to an Irish theme. But it is in Scotland.

It's just made me feel like I shouldn't bother applying.

I assume they could argue that they want a more authentic Irish feel to the business, and by the manager being non-Irish, they wouldn't have that?

Then it'd be illegal for them to advertise for an Irish person.

But in practice, if both you and an Irish person applied and they gave it to the Irish person on the grounds simply of his/her Irishness, they would probably try to bullshit out of it by claiming that he/she had better skills/experience/aptitude.

Can you talk to someone directly about this?

occasionally gender or race can be a 'genuine occupational qualification' of a role - for example you can specify that a counsellor in a womens' refuge is a woman, or an actor to play martin luther king is a black man; however it sounds unlikely that this would be the case in your role, and therefore it is direct race discrimination.

Not sure who I can talk to, it's been sent by the top cats of the company...

If it's an internal document it sounds ignorant and clumsy, but you say 'must be Irish' wasn't on any advert, or anything similar?

Yes requiring someone to be Irish without it being a 'genuine occupational requirement', which it isn't, is discrimination. Instead they could have considered things like 'must have good understanding of Irish culture' or something, if that's important.

If you've been almost guaranteed the job, you should get it anyway, so there will be no loss on your part. Do you have to do a formal application, with a cv and letter and everything? You could address the issue in your covering letter, say something like 'I am concerned to note the comment that the successful candidate will be 'ideally Irish'. I do not feel nationality is a genuine occupational requirement for this role, so very much hope my own nationality will not be counted against me.' As well as obviously putting all the usual stuff about how marvellously suited to the role you are, for the right reasons.

That will draw their attention to the fact that putting 'ideally Irish' might have been dodgy. If you don't get the job you can definitely think about challenging it.

"You could address the issue in your covering letter, say something like 'I am concerned to note the comment that the successful candidate will be 'ideally Irish'. I do not feel nationality is a genuine occupational requirement for this role, so very much hope my own nationality will not be counted against me.' As well as obviously putting all the usual stuff about how marvellously suited to the role you are, for the right reasons.

That will draw their attention to the fact that putting 'ideally Irish' might have been dodgy. If you don't get the job you can definitely think about challenging it."

Careful Equally, it could backfire. You could scare them into not giving you the job. And if they then appointed a different non-Irish person, there would be nothing legally that you could do about it.

Not sure the is called for..

DSM is already doing the job OrganicHairbrush, and has been 'virtually guaranteed' it. All so good so far, except they have now openly and in writing essentially introduced a criterion that she does not meet. I think addressing that criterion in a covering letter is absolutely fine; if the incumbent person doesn't meet one of the criteria for their own job it would almost be strange not to address it. Similarly as the incumbent, DSM is certainly in a position to express a valid opinion about the criteria that have been mentioned.

Personally I think it's extremely unlikely they'd decide not to give the job to someone doing it successfully already, and who they have virtually guaranteed it to, simply because she challenges one of the criteria in her covering letter. That would make absolutely no business sense. It sounds to me as though the application process is more likely to be a bit of a tick box exercise as is often the case where people are required to apply for their own jobs, rather than a genuinely open recruitment campaign, so I hardly think it's very likely that they are going to suddenly ditch DSM because she expresses an opinion.

Just my opinion obviously, and DSM is certainly in the best position to judge whether my suggestion or any other course of action is the best one and how the individuals concerned are likely to react.