Life after dismissal for gross misconduct?

[choppychopster]

Following the thread that I had deleted last week about being suspended after I stupidly posted on Facebook that my boss was being a bitch when I couldn't get to work because of the snow, I've had my disciplinary hearing and dismissed for gross misconduct.

I've got the right to appeal, but don't think that there's any point as although the punishment is probably too heavy handed given that this was a one off, the circumstances under which the comment was made and my previous good record at work, it does specifically list "making offensive comments about a colleague on social networking sites" as gross misconduct within the company's web use and harassment policies.

I had deliberately ignored friend requests from anyone at work, but found out that my privacy settings weren't as I thought I had set them. Turns out that it was another member of my team who I don't have a particularly good working relationship with (I sat opposite with him and sometimes found it hard to diguise my irritation with his constant chatting and incompentence at his job)who found the comment and decided to show it to our boss.

So, now I need to start applying for jobs, but not sure how to handle questions about why I left my last company. I can't imagine that "dismissed for gross misconduct" is going to be particularly attractive to potential employers if it comes through on a reference. Am I right in thinking that it's best to hold my hands up and say that I did something stupid, that I've learnt from the experience and emphasise the postive qualities that I can bring to a future employer?

Thanks again to Flowerybeanbag, Ribenaberry and others who gave good advice on the other thread.

You have nothing to lose by appealing but everything to gain.

It is even arguable that this colleague was harrassing you by deliberately looking for something to report on your FB pages. He's not on your friends list so was snooping. Obviously this is no defense for you, but you could raise it as a separate matter if you wanted to make an issue of it.

Put the appeal in.

You might find that by mentioning a few words like "unfair dismissal" and harrassment against you they start playing an altogether different tune.

Worse case senario: nothing changes, you're still dismissed with this on your record.

Best case: they reinstate you and you look for another job and get out of there asap... or wait out the 6 months until the written warning is no longer live.

Also did you say on FB your boss was a bitch or being a bitch? Quite different things IMO.

I think you should appeal as others have said. You have nothing to lose and a prospective employer to whom you explain the situation may well ask whether you appealed and find it strange that you didn't. This might start them thinking that it was more serious that you have let on to them.

At least tick the box of appealing even if you have no intention of taking it further.

Just read this thread and also wanted to encourage you to appeal. You are being very sensible and mature about the whole thing, and like, the poster above me said, have evrything to gain.

id appeal - what have you got to lose?

do you have a CAB near by? they can offer advice - they helped me with a tribunal.

Thanks all for being so supportive. I have decided that I am going to appeal as there's nothing for me to lose and whilst I'm not enjoying the thought of going through it all again, I'll be disappointed if I don't stick up for myself.

Flowery - I've not recieved any written acknowledgment of the outcome of the disciplinary meeting that took place on Monday. Am I right in thinking that they should send me this along with notes from the meeting, along with information on how to appeal?

Yes you should have confirmation of the outcome, which, as you were dismissed, should include details of your termination date and other leaving arrangements. You should be notified of your right to appeal and how to do it.

They may not include notes of the meeting, but do ask for them, and write up your own as well.

woohoo! just seen that you've decided to appeal. go girl. it's a very disproportionate response to a stupid mistake.

I would have expected them to give you a letter with the details Flowery describes at the meeting to deliver their decision.

That's what I would have done any way. Adjourned the meeting, talked it over with HR/another colleague, got it agreed by whoever has to agree dismissal and then prepared the letter ready to hand over when dismissing.

I have done a dismissal and a couple of suspensions before and both times I prepared paperwork before speaking to the employee once the decision had been made to dismiss/suspend. In the case of dismissal this was, of course, after the hearing.

I am cheering that you have decided to fight this. Good for you!

Glad you have decided to appeal - i think it is unfair to summarily dismiss you for this - you were sounding off privately to friends who were not colleagues, not exactly broadcasting to the world. I would suspect it is not reasonable to classify this as gross misconduct as you were not using the company internet for this. Your private opinions expressed to friends in your own time should surely be none of your boss's business.

Good god what next, will they have cameras in our kitchens trying to trip us up on the slightest complaint about our bosses to our families?

[cantcarrryon - the point is that it wasn't private. op thought it was but it wasn't]

Delighted you're going to appeal. Didn't see the other thread - god how awful

This is why I am not on facebook under my real name!

I would pursue Legal Action with the intention to re-negotiate a resignation rather than dismissal.
Most companies will consider this rather than waste money on solicitors. You could also advise them that you are considering going to the press and that may help and they will prob want to avoid this.
My company sacked someone recently but gave them the option to resign at the last min which means they get a decent reference.
Good Luck x

Uggmum - Press is an empty thread unless it's salacious or a well known employer of interest to the media - e.g. a big retailer. even that can be pushing it. Employees threaten to go to the press all the time and employers don't give a stuff 90% of the time. Same goes for threatening to involve an MP.

OP- So sorry to hear this. I would agree with Flowery that you should appeal and take it from there. You may be able to negotiate something with them on a without prejudice basis - e.g. that you'll resign if they overturn the decision to final written warning. Come back if you want to talk more about that. You still wouldn't get a decent reference because they can't mislead as to what's gone on, but they can be neutral.

As far as freedom of speech is concerned, I see people's point, but you don't actually have the right to be rude about colleagues or employers and keep your job. What free speech effectively guarantees (leaving aside slander) is the right to mouth off once you've left!

threat, not thread...

Yes, hatwoman, but it is obvious she wasn't mouthing off to colleagues, was meant to be just privately to her friends. The spiteful colleague had to go looking for this comment.

I would also suspect that the gross misconduct clause only applies to ue of the company network. I would be interested to see how the company could justify having such a clause covering OP's use of her own private computer to contact friends.

But I agree with Ladybiscuit, this is why i am not on facebook at all - it gives away too much about your life to complete strangers.

Definitely won't threaten going to the press, apart from anything I couldn't bear dragging this out it public.

I'm struggling to write an appeal letter, so if Ribenaberry or Flowery or someone can help, I'd be really grateful.

Basically, I want to appeal on the grounds that the punishment is too severe given the circumstances under which the comment was made and considering my clean disciplinary record. Also that a colleague seems to have gone out of his way to look for this comment by scrolling through pages of banal updates - I didn't really emphasise how creepy and spiteful this was at the hearing. I can't see how I could go back there now, but would resign if they overturn the decision.

Yikes!

Hope you get some resolution.

I guess it's gotten to the point where this sort of thing is common if it's now written into peoples' contracts that comments made on social networking sites can jeopardise one's employment.

I too think you should appeal, this seems extremely harsh and I am so sorry for you but you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by fighting this.

Please take sime legal advice about this.

FWIW I've just read our employment policy and if you weren't using the company's equipment when you wrote the comment, it doesn't look like it's grounds for gross misconduct. Were you at work when you did it? Have you checked what your employment manual says?

Use lots of bullets choppy, and write it assuming it will be read by someone with no prior knowledge of the situation.

State as an opener that you are appealing the decision to dismiss you on the grounds that the sanction was disproportionately harsh given the nature of the incident.

Then go on to make your various statements as to why, such as previous record and your belief that your privacy was set differently.

I would also suggest you add a further ground for appealing in terms of the delay in acting, which is of course linked to your colleague's behaviour. If something is gross misconduct or indeed any misconduct, immediate/timely action is required, and this happened some time ago.

Obviously they've only become aware of it now, so acting promptly wasn't an option for them, which is fine. But you can then make the point that clearly no distress or negative consequences for your manager resulted from it at the time, and have only resulted from your colleague's clear search for something.

Doesn't mean you weren't wrong obviously, and you should make that clear, but you should still mention it I think.

I had an employment gap after something that meant i could not carry on in the same line of work ( and it did look pretty bad for me)
I did some freelance lecturing and worked as a temp for a while, to ensure I could get two really goood references, and then used an old employer who was also a friend as my general referee to talk about reliability and effort etc. after my little setback I've ended up with amuch better job, but it has taken a while to do.

Good luck with this, definitely appeal.

Big sympathies for your situation, but I would sack a staff member who called me a bitch in FB, esp if it was specifically listed in the guidelines. Not necessarily because I am a sensitive soul, but because it is bad for the image of the company. I worry about how many people on this thread thinkit is a reasonable thing to do 'amongst friends'.

However - good luck with your appeal - I think the problem is with a reference rather than your CV. Not sure how you deal with that, but the Guardian has a 'Work' section and an advice column, that I am sure has covered similiar situations - how to appoach next potential employer. So maybe you could find the advice online. Do you have a recent previous employer who you could use as your referee? I suspect that honesty and the 'learnt lesson' is the best way. As an employer I WOULD respond positively to that,but I'd have to feel it was learnt, not just being said, and I would be the next person to be unprofessionally slagged off in public.

Sorry - don't mean to rub salt - am just amazed at how many people think it's not all that bad and want to warn people not to end up in your situation.

'FWIW I've just read our employment policy and if you weren't using the company's equipment when you wrote the comment, it doesn't look like it's grounds for gross misconduct.'

Guess it depends on the company. There was a famous case involving a man who was employed by Waterstone's and made desparging remarks about the employer, calling them 'Bastardstone's' and his boss 'evil' on a blog, in his own time, and he was sacked for gross misconduct back in 2005.

On the bright side, he did get another job!

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