employment rights with hospitalised child

[mysteryfairy]

I work a four day week for a large employer with very aggressive performance management.

My DS who is 13 has been hospitalised for two weeks with an as yet undiagnosed illness. He is at hospital about an hour's drive from our home.

We have been juggling his care between myself, my DH and grandparents and so far I have taken two days off work. This evening I am absolutely shattered and desperately worried, having been at the hospital since Friday. I'm not sure that I can cope with another night sleeping here and go to work in the morning. I haven't been at home with my other children since I took them to school just before coming to the hospital on Friday when I took over from DH.

There is no immediate prospect of DS leaving hospital. I would just like to tell work I am not available for the forseeable future whilst he is still in hospital but am held back both by my commitment to my current project (as I know my absence would have an impact on colleagues) and also by my concern that I will be penalised for my absence.

Please can someone advise what are my rights in this situation and what it would be reasonable for my employers to expect of me?

I think you could get signed off by your GP .... there is no way you can be expected to work in this situation. Really hope DS gets better soon x

Advice here from direct.gov website.

It seems you are entitled to time off, but they don't have to pay you.

Hope DS is better soon.

I'm sorry to hear about your ds.

I was in a similar position with a similar company some years ago (it's not one of the big banks is it?) Initially I was on mat leave but things hadn't changed much by the time I had to go back. I juggled it around for a while but pretty much ended up having a nervous breakdown which resulted in me being signed off. This was before there was any right to unpaid parental leave. If I was in that situation again I would not hesitate to go to my GP and take time off with anxiety. You are to be commended for your loyalty to your company and your colleagues. I think you have to ask yourself if that loyalty is reciprocated. I found out to my cost that my employer was less than sympathetic.

There's some info about parental leave here but it looks like you have to have a child under 5 to qualify. You may have to request unpaid leave but I know how much of a problem this can be when you are effectively not living at home. It's damn expensive. You have my sympathy.

I'd go to Gp and get signed off with stress.

Yes, I do work for one of the big banks.

Taking unpaid leave is not a massive issue. At the moment time at the hospital covered by my DH is costing us far more as he is self employed so losing not only his time (which in itself is a lot better paid than mine)but also potentially losing clients for the future as has already delayed a couple of things.

Number of incidents of sickness has been a criterion in recent redundancy rounds so I am very reluctant to try and take any sick leave.

I will have a look at the unpiad leave guidelines - thanks.

That was a good guess wasn't it mf?

Please look after yourself too, it's a very stressful situation. Have they any ideas about ds's illness?

I've read the guidelines.

I'd be really grateful if anyone could advise about how these are likely to be interpreted in practice?

It says I can take reasonable time off in an emergency. I'm not sure when a child in hospital ceases to be an emergency and becomes just the way it is. It suggests it's reasonable to take time off until I can make another arrangement. I can't see how anyone other than DH or I is ever likely to stay overnight at the hospital and we would not consider leaving him alone.

Sorry I am not phrasing this well - v v tired.

Unfortunately there are no rights which are well suited to your situation.

'Emergency' leave for care of dependants is available, but would usually be a day or two for an unforeseen issue, not a long term situation.

Parental leave may be an option, although you have to go through a formal request process and commit to a period of time off work. It can also be postponed for business reasons. However, it would give both sides a bit of certainty by setting aside, say, a month where you won't be in.

Depending on your child's illness, bear in mind that case law has recently clarified that you cannot be discriminated against for your child's disability (which means any serious-ish condition likely to last at least 12 months. You can read more on directgov). In that case absences as a result (provided properly approved, etc) shouldn't count against you in any redundancies.

If you are too stressed to work, being signed off is an option, but please only if that's the case. I don't feel that people suggesting you get yourself signed off is necessarily the best way to go unless the OP has indicated that they may be unfit for work...

Cleverly concealed - I bet the phase aggressive performance management struck a chord!

They have some ideas that suggest it may be a chronic condition. Don't want to post any detail as I am deliberately trying not to look online at moment re the health stuff due to a couple of nasty shocks when I looked up stuff earlier that they have now discounted. He is very weak and in a lot of pain. It's hard to believe that up till three weeks ago he appeared a totally healthy child.

Talk to GP and get signed off, by far the easiest and most robust solution to your problem.

My SIL was in a v similar situation and was off for 4 months I think in total! I think some ended up as being unpaid.

You must be stressed and your are not doing anyone that matters (ie your family) any good trying to juggle everything. Cut yourself some slack and get signed off. I really hope your DS gets better soon and they work out what is going on. Sending you lots of support.

TBH in my experience by reasonable time off they mean a couple of days for you to make alternative arrangements which as you say isn't really helpful. I think requesting a longer period of unpaid leave or sick leave is the way to go although I understand about the sick leave issue.

x-posts - agressive performance management rang alarm bells I do hope they get to the bottom of it soon. And yes, don't Google!

This is the directgov guidance on emergency leave:

"How much time you are allowed to take off
You are allowed 'reasonable' time off to deal with the emergency and make any arrangements that are needed. There's no set amount of time allowed to deal with an unexpected event involving a dependant - it will vary depending on what the event is but for most cases one or two days should be sufficient to deal with the problem.

For example, if your child falls ill you can take enough time off to deal with their initial needs, such as taking them to the doctor and arranging for their care. However, you will need to make other arrangements if you want to stay off work longer to care for them yourself.

If both parents wish to take time off for a dependant you should try to adopt a common-sense approach with your employer. Both parents may need to take time off work if your child has had a serious accident, however it is unlikely to be necessary if the childminder fails to turn up.

There's no limit to the number of times you can take time off for dependants, provided it's for real emergencies. If your employer feels that you are taking more time off than they can cope with, they should warn you of this.

If you need to be off for longer than you thought to deal with something, contact your employer as soon as you can to let them know why and how long you might need. Try to give them these details in writing as soon as you can. Your employer may have a form they will need you to fill in."

Please don't get signed off unless you are genuinely ill (although obviously sdo if you are!). I would suggest going to your employer with the situation (including the possible chronic nature of the condition, to trigger HR alarm bells about associative discrimination) and a proposal for parental or simply discretionary unpaid leave.

You officially need to give 21 days' notice for parental leave, but your employer can waive this. They are far more likely to be happy and positive about a formal arrangment which gives them a timescale for reassement - e..g you are off for the next six weeks and then assess than the vagueness of sickness absence or odd days. If you can take it financially, that is probably better for you mentally too...

I think the problem is that you can very quickly become unfit for work in this situation. The lack of sleep and not eating properly combined with driving distances when your mind is elsewhere soon takes its toll.

He is 13 RibenaBerry so I presume that means I'm not eligible for that parental leave that you can formally request. I have been through the process of requesting that once before when my DD was due to start school and had a lot of half days at the start of term. It was actually agreed at the time, although I moved roles and didn't take it but from what I remember I couldn't have taken it for an older child.

I would have to give six months notice to leave my job so not clear what I actually do in these circumstances if I can't physically work.

Yes, true, totally agree.

I suppose my concern is posters suggesting that as the automatic proposal without knowing the OPs state of mental health (we're not doctors. Well, I suppose some might be, but she's not their patient!).

Regardless of what should happen, absence for mental health issues often still carries a stigma and a perception by managers that that person now needs to be managed out. If a more pro-active and positive solution can be found, it might be better long term. I know it's all well meant, but being signed off sick with stress can be a real stumbling block.

Damn, not parental leave then.

Ummm, I'd still go to HR with a proposal for unpaid leave. If you're on six months notice I'm guessing you are senior and valued. Remember that the thing these places like least is uncertainty about whether you'll be there or not. A period of discretionary unpaid leave is likely to be their least worst option (IYSWIM).

Oh yes absolutely. My relationship with said employer was never the same after that period of sick leave. And I was unfit for work at that point; truth be told I was seriously sleep deprived and barely sane. i don't work for them anymore and their attitude towards me at the time and for several years afterwards as dd has a chronic health problem was pivotal in my resignation.

It's a very tough situation especially when there is so much uncertainty.

Yes, it's sad isn't it. A very tough situation.

OP, I hope it all works out for you and your DS. Sorry I missed his age when I first read your post.

I think I will have to ask for unpaid leave then. The current situation with me working on my laptop/BB between conversations with docs and going from office to sleep overnight in hospital and back to office can't continue.

It's disappointing to discover there is no legislation to cover this situation but good I guess in that it implies it's uncommon.

Thanks for all good wishes for DS.

Was in a similar position and my GP signed me off without me even going in rang her explained what was happening and she just asked how long I wanted - ended up having 2 months off DD was in hospital for 6 weeks then took another couple of weeks just to get family back to normal. At least if u are signed off u will get SSP and employer cant argue a sick note - technically knowing the state I was in u are ill!

I am contractually entitled to a long period of full paid sick pay.

The issue with taking sick time especially for stress is exactly as RibenaBerry highlighted - my employers do manage people out once they do this. I can think of two female former colleagues who have left in similar circumstances.

The use of sick leave as a redundancy selection criterion is another reason for not wanting to do this.

I can only assume a period of sick leave would also may like less desirable to other employers too.