how common is working from home in academia?

[hatwoman]

I've seen a job I'd like to apply for - but it's not local and I'd like, mainly, to be able to work from home. It's a research job, with a small amount of teaching as a bit of an add on, and some supervision of post-grads. obviously it's not lab-based scientific research (or I wouldn't be asking). I'm wondering what my chances would be of negotiating something like 1 or 2 days a week in the office, and the rest at home. Also - as a research job, are they likely to differentiate between term and non-term time? I wondered if maybe lots of academics work at home outside term-time? so I could negotiate on the basis of being more present in term time? I actually know the head of dept and his name is on the ad to call for an informal chat - which I'll do, but any tips on how to handle this, and even how to handle the informal chat. would be v. gratefully received.

inveteratenamechanger this is very true which is why I only bothered doing the job for a couple of years.

When I joined the department I only had article published and was coming straight from clinical practice (lecturer in nursing with a specialism in child and adolescent mental health). I was put in charge of a new course and a new module.

Despite being completelt unsupported by the department in either of these taks I got good feedback from the students for my teaching and did well in the first module i completed of my teaching certificate. that, however counted for nothing, as long as i was present at the lectures it didn;t seem to matter what kind of carp was undertaken. Most of the lecturere trotted out a lot of thesame out of date garbage year after year having never been near a patient or a ward for at least 5 years.

All they were interested in was me increasing my reserach output, again offereing no support with this. I hated it. I hated the academic competitiveness and the snobbery that existed in the department. The fact that i put blood sweat and tears into my teaching whilst all the dinosaurs were bloody lazy re the teaching and often just did directed study and taught non evidence based out of date interventions just because they knew a bit about them despite them being nowhere near the NICE guidelines.

It was a horrible job and I'm glad to be back in clinical. 4 of us started at the same time and we all left after a year or so.
Am very about acdemia as a result and it's validity to the actual real world.

If anyone wants anywhere to blame for the poor quality of nursing today look to the institutions that train them.

really interesting post minx. I'm also looking at crossing over from "practice" - although a very different field, and I think the cross-over is quite common - the practice in question comprises research and policy work - and the academic and practice communities over-lap enormously so it's much less of a leap. I think...

very interesting what you say about teaching and publishing - I've long thought that they are very different things (since being an undergrad tbh) and have often thought that being widely published doesn't make you a good teacher - and in fact, from what you say, the opposite may be true. you sound very passionate about teaching - it's a shame you didn't find the support you needed. a real shame, given how important your work is. are there teaching roles in nursing in non-academic settings?

really must phone the HOD today. didn;t get round to it yesterday. very pleased (if a little suprised) to see the job wasn't in the Guardian...

Will be interested to see what happens, Hatwoman. My former job (a proper, permanent, full-time lectureship) was not advertised in the Guardian or THES - or, in fact, anywhere bar the University's internal magazine. Why? Because it was a complete stitch-up. They had already approached me to ask if I would apply; if so, they said, I would be the only candidate called for interview. In order to fulfil 'equal opportunities' requirements, they did have to advertise the job - but the univ. internal magazine counted as 'advertising'...

Of course, not all Departments are quite so unscrupulous!

I'm back...with another question. It's because you're all being so helpful.

what are your views on posts in less prestigous unis? (ex polys, for example). not so much the job itself but its impact on relations within academia and future prospects? (I hate that word but it fits). Does it make it harder to make contacts at/work with people at the big-name places? and does it cut you off from future posts at prestigous unis? (if it's relevant my own degrees (undergrad and post-grad) are from 2 of the top UK ones)

Dhy is an academic and he spent 9 years with a 2-3 hour commute each way so kept his hours in the office to a minimum. He needed to be in for:

Office hours
Teaching
Staff meetings and important office meetings (and there are A LOT of those in academia)

He varied between being in the office 3-4 days a week and 1-2 days a week (usually in the summer). The main thing was that the days in the office varied weeks to week depending on his teaching and meetings and werren't always completely predic table more than a week or two in advance

A great deal depends on the institution. Where DH works they emphasise flexible working and family friendly working patterns so this is possible. Dh knows other iistitutions that insist on a minimum number of days in the office type thing.

HOWEVER, in dh's place, although it is flexible, the downside is that there is no real division between work and home time so academics are expected to be avilable to work at the weekends if necessary and this might include teaching in the evemings (on certain courses) or at the weekends.

Often if a new course is developed that needs weekend or evening teaching, staff who joined with no expectation of teaching at weekends find themselves having to do so.

The "flexible" hours thus goes both ways.

"what are your views on posts in less prestigous unis? (ex polys, for example). not so much the job itself but its impact on relations within academia and future prospects? (I hate that word but it fits). Does it make it harder to make contacts at/work with people at the big-name places? and does it cut you off from future posts at prestigous unis? (if it's relevant my own degrees (undergrad and post-grad) are from 2 of the top UK ones)"

IME, it is not an insurmountable obstacle. I am at a RG institution, and we have interviewed people from post 1992-universities for the last two permanent appointments. In neither case did they get the job, but one did go on to get a job in the same year at a very good university - arguably better than ours.

In my field, at least, it's all about the publications - and publishing in prestigious journals and with 'good' publishing houses. That sort of thing can get you a job anywhere.

It sounds awful in academia. does anyone have a good experience? To me it should be the most flexible friendly job of all and such a shame it isn't.

It has its moments, nikos! In some ways I love my job - teaching is fantastically rewarding, and it is great to do something so intrinsically interesting.

But unfortunately lots of departments - like mine - operate on the assumption that you have a full time stay at home partner, and can be available to work a 50-60 hour week. There really is an expectation that more and more can be squeezed into your 'spare time', as twinkster said further up the thread.

hahahahaha

Meanwhile, while DH is taking kids to various sports activities, I am here at 7pm having had no dinner yet and will be working all evening to finish something. And at least 2-4 nights a week involve something work related or other; more at particularly tough deadlines.

It IS a very flexible job and that has huge advantages - I can pick my kids up from school some days every week (but not all, I wouldn't get anything done, so they go to after school, friends' houses etc) I can usually juggle things if they're ill (but not all three, one after the other... that's when the lack of spare time really hits home, because it's the research that gets shoved out, not the meetings and teaching)

I agree with the 'little woman' assumption. Most very successful academics are men with wives at home or part-time; or women without children.

you're not exactly selling this to me ladies...

Sorry, Hatwoman!

I inveteratenamechanger is quite right about the assumption that you have a full-time stay-at-home partner. Even the nicest, most allegedly part-time job in academia tends to creep into being a full-time job with half-time pay. I did have a half-time academic job in my 20s; it was in effect completely full time, only I was allowed Fridays at home to do research (in fact, to prepare teaching material).

When I had the full-time job, I worked until midnight most nights, and all day Saturday and Sunday. And I still didn't get any research done! I was teaching courses from scratch, which were not in my field at all, and had to prepare the pesky things...

Re. switching from an ex-poly to a 'good' university, I'd agree with Inveterate on that too (my own job was in a RG university, and I recall one appointment being made after me: there was an Oxbridge candidate who seemed very interesting, and a 'lesser' university one who had a list of publications a mile long. He was also a complete tosspot, but he got the job).

It sounds like the teaching is what causes the time to get eaten up. Would a purely research post be more flexible and workable for a mum?

It was the eternal meetings too, nikos. Dept, School, Faculty, Exams... God, I loathed them. Happy memories!

In my field there are very few, if any, research only posts. I suspect if you are research only there are even greater pressures to publish, bring in major grants, attract PhD students etc.

It depends a bit on what you mean by 'workable for a mum'. Most of the mums I know outside of academia are part time and office hours only. That is impossible in my job.

As Wilf says, there is a good deal of flexibility. But the time has to be made up somewhere - I work at least 3 evenings a week too.

And of course we have the same problems with school holidays as anybody else - with the added complication that you can't take time off for half term because it's right in the middle of our terms.

But I'd imagine this is no worse than lots of other professional jobs - and the flexibility is great. DD is still quite small, and I love the fact that I can pick her up early-ish some days and put her to bed...before returning to the computer of course!

Hi Hatwoman

I work at an ex-poly. I'm a Reader. I do quite a lot of research. I think that I am respected in my field (although it is quite a new field - not history or philosophy or something). I'm external examiner at a RG uni. I've been President of a UK association related to my subject. I've been interviewed for other positions at older unis.

In other words, I personally do not believe that my being at an ex-poly has damaged my career. Although my particular ex-poly is actually particularly well thought of, particularly in league tables, etc.

Working at home - I try to do this once a week, but it can be difficult. I supervise a large number of final year dissertations and postgrads.

Not sure about the concept of spare time. Spent Sunday reading through proofs of my book (yes, yes, yes) and have a fascinating book on serial killers and celebrity on my bedside table (DH has fascinating book about medieval sex - yes our conversations are fascinating). I think you have to be fascinated by your subject because it just becomes part of your life, not something that you only do nine to five.

However, the internet is a God-send and I can comment on drafts, etc, via email. I tend to this at this time of night. I also respond to emails during the weekends. It is just easier than letting them build up until Monday.

The flexibility is OK, although October school holidays are a complete nightmare (DH is also an academic).

I just have to come back and say I love my job. Yes, the admin can be a pain and yes, sometimes (though actually, as I get more senior, not all that often) I'm up till all hours finishing something and yes, some of my colleagues (though very few, and now on the point of retirement) do bugger all for the students, but I'm paid to spend most of my time doing the things I enjoy most, writing and teaching. I love the time I spend in the classroom, when the big issues often come alive for me as well as, I hope, at least some of the students, and I love it that I'm paid what seems to me a fairly generous salary for reading and writing about what really interests me. Several of my colleagues are also close friends, who share my assumptions about what matters most in life and scholarship, and most people in my dept understand that there are times when family just has to come first and will cover for me as I cover for them at those times. Mostly, I use the flexibility to come home mid-afternoon, be around for homework, dinner, bath, bed and then work in the evenings and I wouldn't be able to work full time and be around so much for my kids in any other job. DH sometimes accuses me of 'working' in bed but the truth is that even I can't distinguish between some of what I do for work and what I do for pleasure. Universities are horribly over-regulated and a lot of what we're made to do is counterproductive, but there's bullshit everywhere and I wouldn't do anything else.

this is all so interesting! in my area there's quite a fine line between consultancy, academia and think-tanks. they certainly all chase the same money. I currently work as a consultant and have done joint work with this particular dept in the past, and have a joint bid with them for another piece under consideration. the j-d is very research oriented - which actually means a lot of money-chasing. so I'm not sure how teaching and undertaking research will fit in.

I'm also quite used to "flexible" work. ie picking dcs up some days and then working in the evening. dh works p-t and generally a tremendous support.

oddly enough, although I just said you weren;t selling it to me, I seem to be all excited now...

just smiling to myself at "working in bed". when I did a post-grad I used to come to bed - because it's a nice time when dh and I chat - and then, when he'd fallen asleep, I'd get up and work.

I am working in bed right now! But DH is downstairs...

I love my job too actually, for many of the reasons Celia gave. But I find it mighty difficult being all the things that are wanted (good at teaching, research, writing, citizenship, admin, bureaucratic hoop jumping etc) AND being all the things my family, home and friends need. Something often has to give.

I don't suppose though, in that respect, it is any different to any other professional job. I just think it is hard when the sense of 'vocation' gets squeezed out by other stuff.

oh wilf - so true! I have what I guess is called a "sense of vocation" and it's very difficult to balance that with family life - not from the pov of getting chores done so much, but because I feel guilty about working late and long - it feels kind of like it's just for me - my work doesn't benefit the wider household much (pay's rubbish and eclipsed by dh's). dh has no such commitment to work - which makes it much harder - for him work is a means to an end. it's as if he works (selflessly) for the family and I work (selfishly) for me.

Dh loves his job too and as he has got more senior (has been doing it nearly 20 years now in different institutions) his hours have got less. Not because he does less (though he certainly does less research than when he was younger) but because he really is much better and more efficient at it.

He is ruthlessly well organised though and the complete anthithesis of the old fashioned "shambolic but brilliant" academic. Well of course he is brilliant [grin} just not shambolic at all (apart from his clothes which we won't discuss}

Dh does have me at home and I work PT but to be fair to him I really don't do much more at home than he does. Since ds was born he has taken on loads of home stuff and to be honest his career (research particularly) has suffered which has gone from verging on brilliant to much more average.

I work for the family and he works for himself but bcause I work for the family I do less of it.

We did discuss dh going part time in the past but it really is impossible to do an academic job PT without just being paid less but doing pretty much a FT job

I am following this thread with such interest as a postdoc, and just want to thank those of you who have said how much you love your job. I love what is a relatively new career for me, too. For all its drawbacks, from my point of view it is incomparably better than anything I have done in 'corporate life' before.

But sometimes I wonder whether I can do what I need to do at this early stage whilst trying to bring up very small children. You have inspired me, especially Celia with your comments about flexibility. I am working as hard as I possibly can now whilst the baby (soon to be babies!) are little and feel constantly guilty about not being properly available to DD and DH. But my rationale is that maybe, just maybe, by doing so I will have the flexibility to pick up the kids from school occasionally when they are older and I am more established. I am prepared to work lots of odd hours to make up for that and it is good to know that it might be a possibility.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack Hatwoman! I better get back to work!

Yes, biggleboggle, there is a lot to be said for that. I was incredibly lucky to be able to have DD when I was already 'established' in my department, so I think they trust me to get the job done.

I do love my job, and feel very lucky to be able to do something so interesting and relatively well-paid, and have a child.

I feel myself turning into some kind of cheerleader here (couldn't be less like me), but I think I can honestly say that I don't think having children has had any quantifiable impact on my career at all. Dc1 was an appallingly timed accidental pregnancy very early in my career and people said some very depressing things about the probable consequences, which made me work bloody hard to prove them wrong. I am far more productive, and ruthlessly organised, than the blokes who have a wife at home and can spend all day faffing around moaning about admin and teaching prep. I think about research while pushing the pushchair and washing hair and making packed lunches and when I get a couple of hours I write it all down. Juggling teaches you to spot at a glance what really does need doing and what is just time-wasting that will never be mentioned again if you ignore it, and when I think about it a lot of the brighter stars in my field are women with kids. I think all the multi-tasking we do to survive home and work gives us intensive training in the skills that you need to get ahead. Though won't pretend that I would turn down a little wifie and a room of my own if someone were to offer...

It may depend on what field your research is in. In my (former) field, a couple of hours of writing it down after washing the DC's hair wouldn't have got me very far (not least because I'd have been spending that two hours marking, preparing, and filling in stupid forms about how I was spending my time. I kid you not. .)

But if you really love the job, of course, that makes all the difference - and makes you mind less about the bits that you can't do without cloning yourself.