Question about flexible working - employer changing my hours and working pattern

[TheYearOfTheCat]

Forgive me if this question has been answered before, but I would be grateful for any advice.

I do flexible working (my DC are 2 & 4) and work 25 hours per week - 2 x 10 hour days, with the remaining 5 hours going into an 'annualised bank' of hours which can be availed of if I need to attend meetings / courses etc on other days.

I work in a large, male dominated public sector organisation.

My department is currently going through a restructuring process, and I was called in today by 2 of the senior managers who advised me that as part of the restructuring, they intended to amalgamate my unit with 2 others, and that it would be led by someone of my grade, but that it was a 30hr per week post, which needed to be covered Monday to Friday.

The other person the same grade as me who runs one of the other units is ft, and can be accommodated elsewhere. The third unit does not have someone of my grade currently in post, so it is not an issue.

My problem is that I do not have childcare which would enable me to either increase my hours or to change my working pattern to a daily basis. I had previously done 20 hours per week, but reluctantly had to increase to 25 hours as my boss took a member of staff away from my unit which resulted in me being swamped with work (subject of a previous thread). I really don't want to increase my hours.

I explained my childcare difficulties, and was told that this is what was required, and if I didn't want to take up this post, I would have to be deployed elsewhere in the organisation (which could be anywhere).

I enjoy my job (most of the time), I am good at it, and I have a 7 minute commute to work.

Can anyone advise me as to the legal position regarding changing flexible working agreements?

AFAIK legally you have the right to request a flexible working pattern (or a change to the pattern you have already) but the employer is under no obligation to agree if they can show that your pattern is not viable financially or unreasonable for work reasons. If they have decreed that they need a person there 5 days a week for the system to work, you may find it difficult to stick with your current pattern.

Could you keep doing 25 hours over 5 days a week?

You probably need to consider exactly what you want and how you could fit that in with their new pattern.
Whatever you request the onus is on you to explain how the system could be worked successfully. Foresee all their concerns before they bring them up and explain how you would overcome them.

Thanks. I thought that once the employer agreed to a flexible working pattern, there was a degree of protection from it being changed unless by mutual consent?

I think this is a different situation though Slambang as the OP already has her flexible working arrangement in place and they are effectively removing it from her by changing the job and upping the hours .

Are you a member of a union OP, I'm sure they would be able to give some helpful advice.

The fact that your current working hours were arrived at through a flexible working request is irrelevant. Once you've put in a request and it's been agreed, the new hours then become permanent. So the arrangement you have now is no easier for anyone to change than your full time colleagues'

However it doesn't strictly sound as though they are trying to change your hours. As part of the restructuring exercise the number of people at your grade will be decreasing from 2 at present to 1. At present there is one person on f/t hours and you on 25 hours. The hours for the new post are something in between the two. You can certainly refuse to accept the new post if that's what you want to do; before you do that I'd make sure you are clear on what the alternative actually is.

If you are convinced the new job could be done in your current working hours (if the number of posts are reducing is it going to be possible to do all the work in your current hours?), you can put that forward as part of the consultation exercise. If it's been a year since your last formal flexible working request you could get yourself allocated the new job then do another request.

Do you genuinely think the new job leading the amalgamated three units could be done in two long days a week?

Yes but I'm assuming that in this case your employers could argue that the circumstances have changed since your original agreement and so therefore have the right to re-negotiate??

Do you have a union as they'll be the best source of info?

x posts

TBH, I think anyone would struggle to do the job in 30 hours, let alone 25 hours, but they are not offering any viable alternative. Whoever eventually does the job, will have to radically rethink the level of detail they become involved in, and will have to upskill the members of staff in the new unit.

They said there was another vacancy within the same dept (which is a role I would be really interested in), but that it was a ft role, and it was between me and the other person of the same grade to apply for it. I explained I wouldn't be able to do ft hours, and asked if there was any flexibility in their decision to designate the other post as FT, and this amalgamated post at 30 hours. They said no.

My staff association is useless.

Part of me feels that if the men in my work were responsible for being the primary carers for their children, a bit more creativity & lateral thinking would be applied to the situation.

If you think it wouldn't be possible to do the job in 25 hours, what 'viable alternative' do you think should be considered? Have you come up with an alternative you think could work?

If you are only in the office 2 days a week and don't want to change that for childcare reasons, the number of viable alternatives might be limited. It may have to be a job share of some description I guess. Have you thought about/proposed that for possibly the f/t post? I suppose the trouble is if full time hours are, say, 37 a week, and you want to do 25 of them on 2 days, that only leaves 12 hours to cover the rest of the week for a full time post. It would really require either you being flexible about not only working 2 days a week, and/or them being prepared to pay for more hours than a full time post. Tricky.

The key is always to work out what you want to happen and then work out the best way of achieving that. If you are absolutely definite that you want to keep your exact same hours, you need to work out how you can best achieve that. Those hours are very restrictive in terms of your presence in the office, obviously, so it might be very difficult, with some degree of compromise being needed.

Thanks flowery.

I have been thinking about this a lot.

My youngest is starting nursery in September (when these changes are due to take place). What I would like to do is work two full days (8 or 8.5 hrs) and 2 mornings (4 hours) which would give total hours as 25 (Full time hours are 40hrs/week)

I really want to have one morning per week to be able to do household errands, and I want to be around in the afternoon for my DC. I know this seems very self-centred, but this is the way me & my DH decided we wanted to raise our family - not to be killing ourselves at the weekend trying to fit chores in. The way I see it, as my DC get older, their hours in school will be longer and I can increase my hours then. I would hate to feel pushed into increasing my hours, then regret missing out on DS's toddler years. I am aware this seems like I am being led by my emotions on this issue, and it is probably fair to say that is the case.

My thinking is that the above working arrangement would cover the office for 4 days a week, and there will be a lower grade in post who can act as my deputy in my absence. It also means I can continue with my childcare arrangements to cover 2 days a week as I currently do.

I think I will put forward this as a proposal. I have a lot of expertise and experience in my particular field, which could not be easily replicated, and I'm hoping that my manager will recognise that it would be difficult to find someone who works 30 hours per week (we pt workers are few & far between) with appropriate skills and experience in the specialist field I am in (they can only fill the post from within the organisation, not externally.

My other options are to reduce my hours back to 20 per week (happy to do so) and propose a job share for the FT post (although this leaves the other ft person in the amalgamated units to fit into a pt post - unlikely to happen), or to research my options outside of the Department.

Just a quick point, I would suggest that your proposal doesn't say "my deputy can cover my days off". Find a way of making it good for the business and not just loading duties onto someone else - is it a development opportunity for him/her? Could it be said that he/she is underutilsed currently in the restructure?

Sorry, sounds harsh, but it's the first thing an employer will pick up on.

Thanks Ribena.

Sounds like a good proposal and you've thought it through. Fingers crossed they go for it! I agree with Ribena about avoiding any language that may sound like dumping work on someone else.

Flowery, Ribena, thanks.
I have been rethinking, and I think I could suggest doing 5 mornings a week. I have drafted a letter to my boss, below, although I think I probably need to revise it - I'm too wound up by this, and it makes me write cross letters!

Dear

I note your letter of XXXX, which was also the subject of a meeting with XXXX on XXXXXX.

I would have been interested in the XXXX role, however I have been advised by XX that there is no flexibility in the decision that this has been designated that as a ft post, so I will not therefore be able to register my interest in this.

This leaves the other post, which you have stated is .75 Full-time Equivalent, ie 30 hours per week.

As you are aware, I currently work 25 hours per week, which has been agreed following a flexible working request under (XXX legislation) in April 2009. I had previously worked 20 hours per week from April 2008, and reluctantly increased these to 25 per week as a result of the excessive unpaid hours I was working under this arrangement, due to having inappropriate resources assigned to my unit.

During my meeting on XXXX I explained to XXX it would be impossible for me to increase my hours to 30 per week (from 25) because of my childcaring responsibilities.

I therefore wish to register my interest in this post (Note: although don?t want to perpetuate that this is a new post ? really it is my current post with 3x the responsibility, if a new post is it more legally defensible to change my hours????) on the basis that I will continue to work 25 hours per week as per the flexible working agreement. I would propose that a workable way of ensuring cover during the week would be for me to work from Monday ? Friday, 8am ? 1pm (from September 2010). Should you consider that further cover is required in this role, a suggestion is that the differential in my salary (ie the 5 hours difference between 25 hours and 30 hours) could be utilised to contribute towards the retention of the current agency staff member working within my unit. I also understand that the [similar grade] currently in the [other Unit to be amalgamated] will continue in post.

I am happy to meet to discuss if you wish.

I would suggest amalgamating the paras beginning 'As you are aware' and 'During my meeting'. Start 'As you are aware, I currently work 25 hours per week', then scrap the rest of that paragraph and carry on with 'during my meeting'. The fact that you current hours were agreed following a flexible working request is irrelevant. They are your permanent hours and what you need to convey is that you don't want to increase them. It's also fine to say that this is because of childcaring responsibilities. But how you ended up with those hours doesn't matter, and a previous flexible working request 2 years ago to different hours is even more irrelevant.

I'm interested that your 25 hours starting April 2009 were a flexible working request but you also say you increased your hours 'reluctantly'. You wouldn't normally be able to request to increase your hours under flexible working legislation anyway, I'm guessing the increase was a compromise to change your days or something?

Either way, I'd do what I said with the paragraphs. The rest of it is fine, hope it works!

Flowery - Thank you as ever.

I was thinking that MNHQ should have give out awards in recognition of services to MN. If they do, I will be nominating you.