freelancing and "careers progression" (whatever that is)

[hatwoman]

following on from this thread on careers and kids and also from stuff going on in my life at the moment I've been thinking a lot on whether it's possible to "progress" once you're freelance.

Like many freelancers (or independent consultants, as we put on our cvs)in my line of work I left employment mid-career, with a reasonable cv, decent reputation, and a load of contacts.

I've had 2 years now and I've enjoyed the freedom from office politics, and freedom from working with/managing people I wouldn't choose to work with/manage.(that wasn't all, or even most of my former colleagues, but it was some iyswim). I've adapted to flexible times/non-office environment BUT I feel a bit like this is it, same stuff over and over...

It's compounded by the fact that we moved out of London - for a suck-it-and-see 2-year experiment and need to decide whether to stay or go back. If we go back then I'll continue freelancing but would apply for attractive jobs, if they come up. If we stay - then applying for jobs will be out.

So...I'd be really interested to know what people's long-term game plan has been? How have you "developed" yourself when not in an employment situation. I find it hard to keep myself motivated in that respect. And has anyone been s-e for a long time (say 10 years) and then gone back into employment?

Boco, snap! I'm also rurally based and have been getting involved in running/helping with all sorts of school/community stuff that I don't quite have time for but I like being part of something now I no longer have an office/colleagues to talk to!

I find the isolation a struggle too. However I have been very lucky in that there is a lot of work in my line - so it would be foolish to leave my current set up. Friends are often envious of my working from home and i do see the huge advantage of not having long commute etc - but I do start to climb the walls mid-morning and by the weekends I sometimes feel like I can't bear another day at home -when DH and DC are quite ready to flop and not go out after a long week!

more interesting posts.

I'm rurally-based as well but I don't find that, per se, too isolating. I walk the dog in the morning - often with a friend. and some mornings I go for a run with a couple of friends. and dh is at home 3-4 days a week. When we both first started out I think we found it quite hard, being together quite so much, but now we're quite good at it. we tend to have tea and a political rant over something in the newspaper at around 11am, or discuss what we're going to do with our lives. very occasionally we'll go to the cafe for lunch (generally a huge plate of egg and chips and carrot cake.) and if one or both of us is pressed for time we can generally be found at 3.25 hurumphing about whose turn it is to pick up dds.

totally off topic but can I share my new discovery with you? - www.paymo.biz. It's a free time tracker and I love it - you have clients and projects and tasks that you click on and time yourself. the first time you use it it scares the pants off you as you realise just how much time you lose to mn/washing. so it's a good discipline tool

Gosh, just wrote a looong post that then got lost!!

I don't feel too isolated as we live in London and with three kids under 6 (two still at home most of the time) my life is inevitably still quite social - in fact, one of the reasons I work is becasue I like the peace and quiet.

I have one main client but they are an agency and I get a steady stream of work from them - they take a hefty chunk of my fee but do all the invoicing/finding work etc so it suits me for teh moment.
Hi hatty - nursery going well in that I love teh time off and he enjoys it, but badly in that he's had two weeks' of being ill since starting...though I did appreciate the freelance perks of not having to explain to a boss that I needed two weeks off (and then half-term in the middle!).

Career progression I definitely struggle with and might invest in some training to help remedy this...but that requires more expense, more childcare...

Thanks for the new discovery hatwoman - think I'll try it out. I don't charge by the hour but do like to work within a notional daily rate - and often end up doing more hours than a job is "worth".

I see freelancing as being a bit like a permanent temp - I do lots of work for companies where conceivably I might have taken a job if I was on the employment track - and am always very relieved that I didn't. Equally though there's no knowing how far I'd have got had I still been on staff. Maybe I'd have been in the upper reaches by now.

I tend to assume though that after children I'd have been a bit stuck doing what I was, since I'd have been part time - but maybe that's overly cynical...

But also I think freelancing with children puts work firmly in its place. It's not my number one be all and end all - it's just something that I do with some of my time both for intellectual stimulation and to make money.

WingedVictory pointed me at this thread as I'm seeking some of your top tips for freelance contract negotiation.

Wondering if anyone is willing to share their wisdom and expertise with me.

I need some help in negotiating a daily rate for a (potentially ongoing) consultancy relationship.

• What are your tips and tricks for ensuring that you don't pitch too high or low at the initial stages?

• What sources do you use to find out 'the going rate' for your industry/specialism?

• Once you've established a rate, is it standard to renegotiate for additional/subsequent projects?

• And is it unreasonable to expect the Holy Grail of a good work/life balance (eg with flexible working)?

All insights appreciated! Thank you.

bumping

Wow, this thread is really interesting! I came on this morning to post a long and rambling diatribe about whether it's possible /desirable to freelance in the long term, whether anyone has gone back into employment after a long stint freelancing, or whether it's too difficult a gear-shift?!

I have been freelancing for almost 7 years now (with a brief maternity break to have DD2), and there are lots of really great things about it - flexibility, being responsible for my own time, working from home, being there for the kids at 3.30 most of the time, etc, etc. However, I'm going through a tricky patch at the moment, partly because of one client that I have just decided to sack, but won't actually get rid of until their season finishes in Sept. The things getting on top of me are generally:

• how easy it is to over-extend yourself and take on too much
• the mind-draining effects of working for several different people and mentally 'jumping' from thing to thing
• no colleagues to bounce ideas off, or even just have a moan with!
• no-one to take up the slack or help at busy times

DD2 starts school in 18 months time, and I've started wondering whether this really is a good long-term plan for me. But then (as others have said) - could I really step back into the whole office politics / being accountable to someone else for how I manage my time thing?!

Bramshott, I can identify with all of the things you mention that are getting on top of you. I hadn't realised how much I'm affected by the drain of working for several people on different projects.

How do you manage with working from home? I find that's often the worst bit for me, as I get so distracted and find my days slipping by unproductively. I end up trying to reverse the slide by working until stupid o'clock at night and taking 3 times longer to do stuff because I'm tired.

Although, it's easier now the children are all at school because I no longer feel terribly guilty for sending them to nursery at great cost while I procrastinate at home.

Thanks Crystaltits!

I do have issues with prevaricating, but as I'm paying for childcare for DD2, and plan to work all the time she's out of the house, I find that usually focusses me. I can imagine it's difficult once all your kids are at school though!

To answer your Q's about negotiation - although I don't do a lot of it so maybe I'm not the right person:

• What are your tips and tricks for ensuring that you don't pitch too high or low at the initial stages?
  I am crap at negotiation so I just tend to state my position and then stick to it doggedly !

• What sources do you use to find out 'the going rate' for your industry/specialism?
  Luckily I know other people doing the same sort of thing, who don't mind talking about it.

• Once you've established a rate, is it standard to renegotiate for additional/subsequent projects?
  Definitely if it's in a new year / tax year.

• And is it unreasonable to expect the Holy Grail of a good work/life balance (eg with flexible working)?
  Despite my moaning, I do think my work/life balance is pretty good. I manage to do interesting work, in hours that mean I am here for the kids in the morning and after school (even if sometimes I am hiding away with the computer). However, it's NEVER possible to be exactly the right amount busy - always too little work or too much!

I'd agree Crystaltits and Bramshott, the worst bits for me are:

-motivating myself to work from home, particularly without a pressing deadline.

-no colleagues to help, bounce ideas off, motivate me etc.

Crystaltits, regarding daily rate, I have different ones depending mainly on the deadline and the work involved. Tight deadliens cost in terms of childcare and inconvenience so I charge maximum rates for a quick turnaround (and it tends to be deep pocket institutions who ask for a rapid return anywya). I do have a minimum rate, below which it's just not worth my while.

Saying that, I took on a project last year which was v badly paid but it turned out to be much less effort than I thought, I really enjoyed doing it and it's been by far my most high-profile project to date, in terms of adding CV points and developing my career (ie, getting people to take me seriously as a freelancer!). So money isn't everything.

I plan to stay freelance while the children are young (one at school two pre-schoolers at the moment) as I really need that flexibility. DH works very long hours and I don't know how we'd cope if we were both out fo the house all day. But we'll see - the solitude might send me crazy first...

Does anyone rely on any social or professioanl groups, networking or otherwise?

Bramshott, how do you plan to "sack" your client? Do you have a notice period? Will it be ostensibly about contractual terms? Or just stepping back and terminating "nicely"?

WV - I have emailed them to let them know that I can't carry on going forward, and that I will plan to step down at the end of the season in September, unless they find someone else before then. I don't have specific contract terms, so I don't have to give them 6 months notice, but it probably stands me in good stead to keep relations cordial as I work in a small field!

Well that killed it!

Hello! Was just pondering all things freelance and had a quick search on Mumsnet and this thread came up from 13 years ago with some still good advice, including from me! Anyone else still freelancing? How are you finding it? For me, things seem to be slowing down somewhat at the moment... Is that a common experience or just me?