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Secondment - feel manipulated

13 replies

AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 09:14

Hi,
If you figure out who I am please don't out me - need this to stay unsearchable.
Also, apologies if I 'reveal' stuff later on, keep thinking of relevant things but probably won't get them all down in the OP.

Right, sorry, this is complicated

I work for a directorate in a huge organisation. The deprartment head is called Big Cheese.
Under Big Cheese are the Senior Managers, Tom, Dick and Harry (and about 4 others).
Tom's department has 3 teams (A, B, C), managed by Anna, Billy and Chris. I am Anna.
Billy has handed in his notice and will be leaving in May.
There has always been a huge overlap between the jobs, and for one reason and another, my skills and interests are now more relevant to Billy's job than my own, although I do still enjoy my job. I am on Mat Leave, due to go back in Sept/Oct time.

So obviously Billy's job is available and I want to go for it, even though it's a sideways step. I did this last time, and lost out to Billy, as he had more experience, fair enough.
There is a senior member of Team B (SeniorMember) who I am fairly certain will go for the job too. He may have more technical skills but I have the staff management experience.

Tom, my boss, arranged an informal meeting with me to explain he had a problem. If I get the job, then he feels SeniorMember will leave as soon as possible. As I am on Mat Leave until September that will leave the team without anyone senior until then. So he pretty much said he wanted SeniorMember to get it. He suggested a solution to me, which was to create a new role within that team for me to be seconded to. (The team needs more senior members anyway, this would solve a problem in itself). In principle, what did I think. In principle, I said good idea, but I'd need to know more. Now to my mind the unspoken agreement was that I would wait to hear from him about this.

Today I have discovered Billy's job is being advertised, closing date about 2 weeks. I feel very annoyed, as I feel he was stringing me along with the secondment idea until after the closing date, when he'd say no (I personally don't think it can work, but he says it can!).
Anyway, so I'm going to go for the job.

Firstly, I'd just like some insight into the situation from people who aren't involved, maybe I'm overreacting.

Also, assuming (which I think I can) the secondment idea will come to nothing, how can I allay their fears about what's going to happen to the team? How can I make something positive out of all of this.

Thirdly, although Tom says he is doing this with BigCheese, I have only ever spoken to Tom. I know for a fact that Tom is considered a little odd and to have mad ideas. Is it worth trying to talk to BigCheese? I just have a nagging feeling that Tom is building this 'problem' into something bigger than it is, and BigCheese might just think, so we'll be short staffed for a month or two, we'll cope! After all, they should be looking long term (which I am going to highlight in my app and interview).

Fourthly, I know Dick a bit better than the other senior managers, and we are both part of a confidential work support group. As part of that I have discussed issues with Tom, and he has discussed issues with BigCheese. Would it be wrong to ask to talk this through with him to see what he thinks?

(BTW there is no issue around leaving my team short staffed, I'll explain if I need to)

I'm really sorry for all the mad names, was the only way I could think to keep it straight Thanks, if you've got this far.

OP posts:
AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 09:15

BigCheese is the directorate head, sorry, should have previewed

OP posts:
AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 09:38

bump
he's used stuff that I came up with in the job advert
but that's beside the point

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AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 10:18

Bump

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flowerybeanbag · 25/02/2010 10:27

Tom's problem is not your problem. If he is basically saying that you won't get the job because of your maternity leave, that's illegal discrimination. What he should be doing is assessing both you and SeniorMember equally as in a normal recruitment process, then if you get the job, because you all know you are going on mat leave, saying to SeniorMember that he can be seconded to your new role while you are away. If he's concerned about what will happen while you are away, it's not your job to persuade him and come up with a solution to that. If you're the best person for the job, you should get the job.

His talk of secondment sounds a bit rubbish. So he's on about seconding you to team B under someone who is currently your junior? Wouldn't you be better off staying as manager of team A anyway?

AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 10:30

thanks for the reply
"What he should be doing is assessing both you and SeniorMember equally as in a normal recruitment process"
yes, and he has said if i decide to apply for the job that is what will happen. I do believe him as well - I've been in similar situations with him (other side of the table) & he has always been careful to be fair & ethical. I just don't think it can hurt to address some of these issues (indirectly) as part of my application.
No, the secondment idea was 2 team managers in team B - which is the reason i think it won't work!!

OP posts:
AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 10:31

as for seconding SM - it would only be for a few months. OTOH if it's "only" a few months then that's not very long to manage, is it!
I really appreciate you replying btw, i know it's a very long op

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AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 11:29

bump - any more views

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flowerybeanbag · 25/02/2010 11:45

You said "he pretty much said he wanted SeniorMember to get it", and he was pushing you towards an alternative. I'm not convinced you can rely on him being completely fair to be honest. Being completely fair and ethical wouldn't involve pressuring a candidate going on maternity leave to drop her application because he'd prefer to give the candidate not going on maternity leave the job to save himself a (slight) headache. But then obviously I know less about the situation than you do.

Not sure I understand your 10:31:51 post. You said if he seconds SM to the job when you're on mat leave it would only be for a few months. Is that going to be a problem? Do you feel that wouldn't be enough to satisfy the SM and he would then resign anyway? If you are the best candidate for the job, Tom should be worrying about what he can do to keep the SM happy rather than the other way around, trying to come up with a secondment scheme to keep you happy. He could give the SM your current job for example, I don't know. But if Tom's problem is the prospect that he will struggle to retain another member of staff who will be unhappy at not getting a promotion, I really don't think that's something for you to worry about.

AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 12:02

Thanks fbb, that did sort of occur to me when I posted that - the way he presented it was "SM getting the job would cause me the least headache, but if you go for it then that's my problem". I do feel as though I'm in a fishbowl, and I only 'see' his spin on events, which is why I thought about talking to BigCheese about this. I don't want to go over his head, but do want to know whether Tom is building this problem up to be something its not for his own purposes.
Think I'll just go for the job and forget all the rest, although tbh I've just looked at the person specification and it's been rewritten to make it hard/impossible for me to meet the essential criteria
Yes, I don't think SM would be happy to be seconded for 3/4 months. He has already started looking for a new job. But you're right, if I get it then they need to figure out how to keep him or accept they'll lose him and think about what to do.

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moomaa · 25/02/2010 12:13

I think you should apply for the job and see what happens. I would suspect you wouldn't get it though, especially as the person spec has been re-written and if the other candidate has stregnths in areas you don't (even if you can do things he can't). It is fairly easy in these situations to manipulate things to get the outcome that suits the company and still be seen to do everything 'properly'. IMO.

AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 12:15

Yes, I think you're right, although the bits I have that he doesn't (managing staff etc) are still in there, they have to be. Stuff I haven't got is specific bits of software.
Grr.

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Skegness · 25/02/2010 12:19

I'd start looking for another job. Sounds like you're underappreciated.

AdviceNeededPls · 25/02/2010 16:30

OK, an update - my email to Tom has obviously convinced him to do some chasing. He's got back to me to say he has BigCheese's agreement and now there's just the HR stuff. Am a bit and though I won't count my chickens until they're in the pie I am cautiously hopeful.
He has given me a deadline of when he will get back to me which is before the deadline for the job. So although I'm going to continue as though I'm applying, I hopefully will be able to withdraw.

I really appreciate everyone's advice and people taking the time to read the epic, but for obvious reasons I will ask for this to be deleted in a while.

Thanks.

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