I want to change my life and have decided to ak for a four day week, can you help me with my proposal please?

[itsmeolord]

Having been inspired by the thred on careers.....

I work in a demanding techie job that involves a lot of sales skills also. I fucking hate it. Really hate it.
I have no real work/life balance. I get home around 6.45 - 7pm. The kids are knackered and getting ready for bed, I am knackered and still have housework to do. Plus I am doing a degree on the OU to try and get a route out of my current industry.
I need to do dentists, new school visits, doctors etc but I never ever get the time to do it. really feel the children need a bit more from me and I feel that I need a bit more fro me as well.

So, I want to suggest to my bosses that I go down to a four day week, salary and holiday entitlement to be reduced pro rata but I would be available on my day off if necessary for phone calls/email.

Bonus to stay the same as it is paid per project won and completed, not based on hours worked.

Benefits to company;

I will be more motivated as I will be far happier with a day to dedicate to study etc.
They will be saving money on my salary but will not lose revenue as my targets would be the same.
The targets are achievable in a four day week. My job is more about time management than spending hours on proposals etc. (its project management, I have a team of technicians and subs working for me, I manage the projects hence mking myself available on the day off for contact if needed)

Um, I can't think of more, I've not done this before....
Any help would be appreciated, even if it's only to say I am living in cuckoo land.

How many people work for your company? If it is a largish number then it should make it easier for you to make a case. Remember also, that the company has to justify why/how your request would negatively impact the business if they decline your request.

When I requested to go to 18hours/3working days in a demanding IT environment the following really helped:

1. Being able to point to other people within the organisation already doing flexible working (if they can do it then why would your request be more likely to have a negative impact?). This is especially good if you can get their manager to confirm that they are at least as effective as their full time peers (anecdotally p/t staff often seem to achieve more in the hours they work as they are very aware that everything needs to be dealt with in the hours available).

2. All the people working in my role were expected to work to be available to work on several projects at once (if they weren't full committed time-wise to a single project). So from my manager's point of view, what difference did it make if the 50% of time I wasn't working for him was spent working for another project or at home.

3. I was happy to considered taking on different roles/projects with in the company if it would help.

4. My reduced hours meant that there a development oppurtunity for someone else to help take up the gap in days covered.

5. Make sure you know the process for requesting flexible working. Your request may have to go through your manager, who may be inexperienced and not realise that there are timescales for them to reply and that they must make a case for declining your request. My manager's initially response was that he didn't think it would be possible, but he really didn't have a clue about it. Make sure you get HR involved as they are likely to know more about the company's legal responsibilities. If the process is not being followed, then challenge them.

6. When making your request, keep a little bit up your sleeve (perhaps the bit about being prepared to be contactable on non-working days) so that you can negotiate and appear to be listening to their concerns and meeting them half-way. I really wanted to go for 14hours/2 working days but compromised on the 18hours/3 working days instead as it worked better for the company.

7)Highlight your (excellent, of course) track record for delivering to deadlines, managing your time, delegating effectively, communication skills etc. etc. these skills will not be negatively affected by reducing your hours and will in fact make it more likely to be successful.

8. Be very clear in your own mind, what you will choose to do if declined. Are you going to resign? Will they be losing you entirely? What's going to happen next?

Good luck - can't think of anything else at the moment but I may come back later if I have any more ideas.

Ooops - Sorry - bit of an epic.

thank you so much for your reply, the epic was hugely helpful so please don't apologise.

The firm is very small but high revenue, high profit. There are 20 employees, I am the only one doing my role.

I don't think they have a formal process in place for flexible working, I am the only female employee and also the first since their inception over 30 yrs ago, none of the other employees have ever considered flexible working, they tend to be very traditional man at work, wife at home with children.
One employee has just had a baby but he was expected not to take his parental leave of two weeks as it clashed with the bosses skiing holiday.

I only started work there in September last year but am already hitting and exceeding my targets.

If your company doesn't have it's own written process then I'd definitely take a look at www.directgov.org.uk which has loads of information on requesting flexible working.

It will tell you if you have a statutory right to request flexible working and also outline the legal requirements of the process which your company might be unaware of.

I think there's also advice on building a case and even a template letter somewhere.

Sorry I can't post a better link - having some PCs problems this afternoon.

My company refuses home working as a rule. I do work "unofficially from home when I can with their knowledge but it is frowned upon really. Because it is a small company there tends to be a bit of jealousy/rivalry over what is perceived to be perks/special treatment.
I feel that moving to an official 4 day week would negate that.

With appts, the rule is that you make them for outside of working hours, unfortunately in practice that makes it impossible unless i take a half day holiday.

Well, if you hate it, is it really worth sticking with it even 4 days a week?

I think you should be actively looking out for new posts in the current industry.

IT companies do seem to be hiring at the moment...

I'm not in i.t, I'm a mechanical production engineer type.

I am looking but there really is nothing out there in my field at the moment unless I take a pay cut but work the same hours.
I'm trying to make the best of a bad job if you'll pardon the pun until I have the qualifications to move out of it.

I'm sorry - I don't know your story, but having gone through something similar when I went back to work after DS1, I would say/ask the following:

1. Do you have a DH/DP? If you do, I find it interesting that you have made no mention of him - why can't he take the kids to their appointments, help with the cleaning, etc? All too often we women take the whole 'burden' of childcare and looking after the house because there is some sort of erroneous belief that it is 'our' job - and men are very, very good at letting us do that.

1. Why don't you have a cleaner? If you're working such long hours, why not make life easier for yourself, for the sake of c.£50 a week (I pay my cleaner £56 per week; she comes on Tuesday and Thursday and does seven hours altogether, cleaning and doing all the ironing).

1. You hate your job. Trying to do it in fewer days isn't going to change that - especially as you're also putting yourself forward to be available on your day off. Being totally cynical, all that will happen is that you will end up working full time (albeit that you will be at home on one of those days), but being paid proportionately less. If your company is as traditional as you suggest, I can't see that they are going to enjoy accommodating your flexible working - they will expect you to be available when they want you there.

1. If your job is project management/more about time management, can you not ensure you work as short a day as you possibly can? Why are you getting home so late?

In an ideal world, the scenario you suggest would have the outcome you want, but I would be very surprised if it does - and it pains me to say that. But the picture you paint of your employer/company does suggest that it's going to be very hard to make it work (even if they accept your proposal), and that it could actually increase the pressure on you, not reduce it.

I'd be focussing on getting out of there now, not waiting until you've done your degree, and finding a job/company that does work for you.

That's not to say you might not get your way! But even if you do, I'm not necessarily sure it's going to solve all your problems.

But good luck to you - hopefully if you're doing as well as you say they will at least respect you enough to consider your proposal.

I have to agree with BIWM - you'll find yourself working 5 days work on 4 days pay.

Do the companies offering lower pay offer shorter working hours and better working conditions?

itsmeo I made almost exactly the same proposal pre-kids when I was in a job that was really getting me down. I proposed 4 days with pro rata salary reduction, but same bonus targets to apply. They accepted it even without having to bring up flexible working (which I wasn't entitled to as no kids at the time). It made sense to both parties - they saved 20% on my salary and still got the same outputs. If it makes sense like that, they will accept even without a formal flexi working request.

I was much happier with the 4 days and it was a huge relief. But tbh not as happy as when I moved to another job, when even 5 days in the new job was better than 4 days in the old one!

A couple of suggestions. This might be a little brutal but it's for your own good (and comes from someone who has worked 20 years in very male dominated industries so has learned the hard way). You are negotiating like a woman. i.e. you are being reasonable and nice and trying to address objections before they are raised. Don't do it. Your proposal is good apart from the following:

1. Don't make the suggestion about being available on your off day. Only suggest that later if it is a sticking point. (And if you have to do that, it can't be a full pro rata reduction as you will end up getting all manner of stupid calls unless you are very strict about how this is managed.) The real benefit of 4 days is knowing that 'I don't have to think about work today at all.' Don't give that away unnecessarily.
2. Remove the first point from your Benefits to company list. It's irrelevant, focuses on how you feel, and introduces weakness by suggesting that you are not currently fully motivated. Any good manager will know this is an implied benefit so it doesn't need to be said.

Good luck!