Any point in pursuing possible unfair dismissal claim if redundancy pay out is good

[Aussieng]

I work for a large firm (c7000 employees in the UK) which despite a large HR department appears to be incapable of getting its redundancy procedures correct both in legal terms and in communication terms.

Anyway, our latest round of redundancies was announced on Monday. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending upon your point of view) this did not include me but does include a good friend and a number of well liked colleagues.

Anyway, I don't know the circumstances but understand that following a discussion with ACAS, one of the more senior people being made redundant has been told that proper procedures have not been followed and there is potentially an unfair dismissal claim (there is no doubt that this is a genuine redundancy situation). I commented to my friend (at risk of redundancy) that I would be surprised if pursuing an unfair dismissal claim was worthwhile given the redundancy compensation package on offer. The employees in question have all been offered 1.5 weeks salary (well in excess of the statutory redundancy) consultation period until the end of March and 2-3 months salary in lieu of notice (notice periods being 1-3 months in all cases).

Can any body advise please as to whether in such circumstances there is any point in pursuing an unfair dismissal claim> I understand the helplessness that being made redundant can cause you to feel and the desire to "do something" but am a bit concerned that a lot of effort and hysteria is currently being put into this potential unfair dismissal claim and may just lead to disappointment. Alternatively, if there is a point then I'd like to withdraw my comments to my friend in case they burst her bubble a bit!

If consultation is still ongoing, not to be completed until the end of next month, it's difficult to see just how many or how serious procedural mistakes could have been made. No one's been dismissed at all yet, so putting 'effort and hysteria' into an unfair dismissal claim seems a bit premature.

You are right to be cautious. Unfair dismissal compensation is purely based on actual financial loss. So even though failure to follow an appropriate procedure might result in a claim being upheld, if the end result would have been the same, there will not have been any financial loss to compensate for, making the claim pointless.

Unfair dismissal for redundancy is only really worth claiming if you can demonstrate that your own selection for redundancy may have been unfair. So if selection criteria used resulted in your redundancy but had fairer ones been used you wouldn't have been redundant, for example, that would be worth it, as you would be unfairly out of a job and clearly able to demonstrate financial loss.

If it's clear that these people would have been redundant anyway, probably not worth them bringing a claim because a bit of procedure wasn't followed, as they would be just making a point. But as I say, it sounds very early to be saying procedure hasn't been followed tbh.

Thanks Flowery - that's helpful. Perhaps I am naive but I doubt the selection was unfair - it is very centralised with no input from local offices so no room for any kind of prejudice or victimisation really. As I say, it does not help that my firm always communicates things quite poorly but on each redundancy round there is talk of potential unfair dismissal claims and it can get quite distracting and upsetting for the staff remaining - especially the trainees and more junior staff as well as being a bit of a roller-coaster for those put "at risk".

I have no idea if this is connected to the ACAS comments but I know that there was a bit of consternation that at the meeting where the employees in question were told that they are "at risk", they were given (individual) paperwork setting out what their redundancy package would be. It is also not the case that every employee in department Y has been told that X number of people are at risk of redundancy. Basically X number of people in department Y have been told that they specifically (out of all the employees in department Y) are at risk of redundancy. There were a number of people expressing views that it is not a genuine consultation/already a done deal etc etc. As I say, I'm just speculating as I think this may have at least been what prompted the call to ACAS if not the actual view (apparently) expressed by ACAS.

It's absolutely right to tell people what their redundancy package would be as part of consultation. Part of consultation involves knowing how redundancy payments would be calculated and obviously one way of communicating that is to tell everyone individually what their package would be, so people are fully informed rather than having to work it out from a provided formula.

Whether only x people should be at risk or whether the whole of department y should be at risk obviously depends on the reasons for redundancies and the proposed structure for the remaining department.

If people feel it wasn't a genuine consultation then that's a reason to appeal it, but the same applies as before, if the result would have been the same, there's really little point taking it any further than that.

Hard to see what my firm could have got too wrong then. To be fair - I don't think the consultations achieve much (in our particular work place but). The firm does not tend to take redundancy decisions lightly - they have usually looked at all the options before we get to that stage and the consultation periods are not always in everyone's best interests IMO - very unsettling all round. I know if it was me I would happily just take the cash and go ASAP. I guess you have to legislate for all cases though. Hopefully it will all die down soon and this will be the last round.

Thanks again "Flowery*.

Yup, what Flowery said.

Redundancy packages are often given out in initial meetings to give those told they are at risk a bit of comfort and put their minds at rest a little. For example, if you've been told that you're at risk and have to wait until the end of the consultation to hear that there's a package, you will panic about finances. If you're told in meeting one "well, there's nothing definite about the redundancy yet, but if it goes ahead your package is 5 1/2 months money all in" doesn't that make you feel a bit better?

Well it would me - but then I've been here for 14 years and my boss just keeps saying "no chance" and we don't do voluntary.