Can a pregnant women be expected to show up at the office first?

[Strix]

This is not someone at my work, but I wanted to post here and see what the collective wisdom of MN thinks. The woman in question is in obviously pregnant. She has raised a concern that she does not want to be the only one at the office for health and safety reasons. Can she do this? Or is she bound to show up in her contracted hours, even if no one else is there, while she is pregnant.

If it was me, and I was pregnant, this would not bother me. There is nothing dangerous about this office. It's not in a dangerous neighborhood.

But, perhaps she does have a legal right to not come in when no one else is there?

A place I used to work wouldn't allow me to be in the office alone when I was pregnant - and where I work now, no-one is technically 'allowed' to work alone either (though it does happen). I think you are all being a bit harsh to be honest. The office itself may not be dangerous, but what if she slipped or fainted, or (depends obviously on the type of office/place of work) what if there were intruders or a fire or a power cut? Being pregnant is not a disability, but it does mean that you are less physically able at certain stages. And what if she is just plain anxious? I think she is within her rights to at least ask. Whether or not her request is granted is another thing though.

where I worked (started ML today) you were not allowed to be in the office alone. There always had to be 2 people there. In a team of 4 this caused some problems when the weather was bad at the begginning of the year as people didn't think to bring lunch in so we had to both go out and lock all the doors etc.

It depends on whether she would be in the office alone if she was not pregnant surely

Well we always have security reception staff so you could never be on your own in the building. I was certainly advised not to go into our basement storage areas or to try and lift anything on my own while pg, but good practice is not doing that on your own anyway. If I was the only person in the entire building for a substantial amount of time when pg then yes, I would be worried.

If I were the line manager, I'd a) look at shifting people around so she wasn't on her own and b) talk to my H&S adviser.

Interesting. At my job about a year ago it was mentioned to a group of us that women should not stay in the office alone in the evening. I told them I thought that policy was unenforcable on grounds of sexual descrimination. Surely if the men are allowed to stay and complete their important work, then I am too.

Lone working is not allowed in my place of work. There must be 2 people on premises at all times.

My pregnant boss sitting next to me often gets here before me - well everyday really - am just waiting for her to say that I need to get up earlier each day to beat her in!!!!

What a load of crap - some people really try to milk it when they are pregnant - doesn;t do much for the rest of us who try and carry on as much as we can normally!

Is her reluctance to work alone in the building definitely related only to the fact she is pregnant? Not, by any chance, something she feels reluctant to do anyway, but perhaps even more so now that she is pg?

Only asking because at my old office, I recall a lot of discussion about people being alone in the building and whether or not that was OK from security point of view. We had a lock on the front door, but still, it was deemed a bit of a risk to be totally alone and to be fair, we did have one or two burglaries as well as intrusion from a homeless person once.

I can imagine that if I had been slightly worried about this already (I wasn't really, tbh) pregnancy might have been enough to tip me over into making an official point of it.

Unless there is a specific policy on no lone working, or a health and safety reason not to be there, she has no right to demand that she doesn't work her normal hours.

HTH

Why not? Everyone has the right to ask for a work-life balance, pregnant or not, so why shouldn't a pregnant lady have the right to ask for the right to work adjusted hours so that she's not alone in the building? And other people have no right to judge her for requesting that. No pregnany is the same and no woman handles pregnancy the same. I may be alone here in thinking that pregnancy does necessitate some concessions. If not, then a pregnant lady should not have the right to take time off for midwife appointments.....most other people have to visit the doctor in their own time or take leave.....you can't have it both ways.

Tanmu - I see where you are coming from, but the question was about a legal right to ask not to be alone in the building. There is no specific legal right for this and, if it's not a health and safety issue, there's no obligation on the employer to vary exisiting contractual terms.

Morally people have the right to ask for work life balance, but not legally unless under a specific heading like flexible working. The right to take time off for ante natal care is a specific statutory right, as is the right to a risk assessment. Asking not to be alone in the builing, unless specifically health and safety related, is just relying on a nice employer just like a non-pregnant employee might.

Carpal tunnel syndrome etc. can be worse in pregnancy so perfectly sensible to have the best doc holder and so on at that time.

Unless you know her state of mind exactly you're not really in a position to judge. Pregnancy can make some kinds of anxiety worse. It doesn't mean the best thing is necessarily to go along with those worries, but it could be that being alone at the office really stresses her, in a way she can't explain. You might think it's irrational but it could be a big thing for her.

Ducks - that's totally true, but that's why everyone said that there may be a health and safety reason for not being alone. Mental health is part of that.

The implication in the post though is that she just doesn't want to be in a building on her own when she's pregnant - and that isn't necessarily enough on it's own unless there are risks (lifting, chemicals, etc) that make that a realistic issue. If I was the employer, I would be finding out whether this woman is ever at home or elsewhere alone.

This woman, in my opinion, is being silly. She is milking pregnancy for all it's worth. But, yes, the question is whether there is a legal right to ask for this because if there is it should obviously be granted. I expect it will be granted anyway because everyone at her company is scared she would sue over anything she could. So they will play it safe and give her whatever she asks for.

I, as a hard working mum and employee, take issue with her behaviour because it gives people like me a bad name. At least one of the director's at her company (which again is not my place of work) has told various people that he will never hire a woman again. I of course think he is a sexist pig. But, I do also see that her behaviour has contributed to his bigotry.

For some examples of why I think she is taking the mick, the last time she was pregnant, she expected:
-bottled water provided for her
-someone else to go get her chocolate when she craved it
-she expects to keep her company laptop whilst on mat leave (which she has been granted)
-she argued that she was still entitled to her full car allowance for her entire mat leave (which I suspect has been declined)
-she has refused to travel to site, which is an integral part of her job (this was granted)
-she wanted to work flexibly from home to look after her baby one day a week..and wanted to be paid for it as working time!

The list goes on. She gets most of what she asks for because they are scared of her bringing a law suit. She has done herself more damage than good because all of colleagues think she is a right PITA.

I didn't mention these things earlier because I wanted this thread to be about the specific question at hand and not clouded by all of her other requests. Obviously, even if she rediculous in a h undred other ways, if she intitled to not work alone then that issues has to be considered on it's own.

I think it sounds like you don't like this woman and want justification...sure some women milk pregnancy, but we wouldn't have gotten half the benefits we now enjoy if someone hadn't 'made a fuss'.

I sometimes works flexibly from home, like when one of the kids are sick, and I get paid for it. If you're still able to get the work done then why shouldn't you? If you can't, then that's the employer's call

I agree that asking other people to fetch chocolate is taking the , but more's the mug who actually goes....

I think it sounds like you don't like this woman and want justification...sure some women milk pregnancy, but we wouldn't have gotten half the benefits we now enjoy if someone hadn't 'made a fuss'.

I sometimes works flexibly from home, like when one of the kids are sick, and I get paid for it. If you're still able to get the work done then why shouldn't you? If you can't, then that's the employer's call

I agree that asking other people to fetch chocolate is taking the , but more's the mug who actually goes....

ooops, there was an error posting, so I posted again so sorry for duplication

She works flexibly from home quite a lot. The point was her flexible working request was to work from home one day a week every week so she look after her child and be paid to work a full day at the same time. This was obviously declined.

The only think I have against this woman is that reinforces male chauvenism in the work place, which makes the glass ceiling all that much thicker for the rest of us.

She does sound like a difficult person, and like you I'd probably be quite at some of her requests.

However, that does not mean that her employer's bigoted views should be laid at her door, even in part (eg you say her behaviour has contributed to those views). It's up to him if he chooses to believe that she is typical of all women when that is clearly not the case! Most of us are smart enough to see beyond it, so he should too -- not her fault if he doesn't.

Not meaning to split hairs. I just really dislike the idea of him, or anyone, getting away with claims that one person's idiotic behaviour in any way justifies a prejudice against a whole category of other people. It's absurdly selective.

I totally agree Dorathea. She is just a lazy person, who happens to be pregnant. And this guy of whom I speak (who is not her boss and so not making the decisions on this matter, but is in a position to influence future hiring decisions) is OF COURSE a sexist pig, which is frankly a worse trait than being a lazy person who milks being pregnant.

But all of this is neeither here nor there because this issue of whether she is entitled to not have to work alone needs to be evaluated on it's own merit irrespective of the rest of the ponts made in recent posts.

Is this her first pregnancy? Perhaps she has watched a bit too much Casualty and is expecting to have sudden unbearable labour pains followed by a baby 10 mins later?

I can't see why it would be a H and S issue.

Nope, not her first.

Looking back,i've had jobs where I would be fine and others where maybe not. DH ahd a job for example where criminals would come to try and get their cars releasedwhen they ahd been snatched.... funnily enough nobody liked wirking that alone (but they always had to),Ispent some time working in a loan ofice and as there was obviosuly cash there may have felt doubly vulnerable- esp. for eg if having to go to the loo a lot. PITA then.

OTOH last pg I was in a job where I vsiited people in their own homes,max H&S risk and it was fine.

Has anybody asked heer what the worry is?

Stix,

The woman here is mixing together some things which are her absolute legal right and some things which are just taking the mick.

Bottled water and chocolate, she can go whistle!

Looking after your baby and working, another big no no for most bosses.

Keeping benefits during maternity leave is, however, an absolute legal right, so it should be a yes to the laptop and car allowance (it might be different if, for example, you had access to a pool car purely for client visits, as you get no personal benefit from it. It's a bit like wanting to take the photocopier home with you!).

Site travel will depend on the woman, the journey, her health, etc.

You are not entitled to keep your car allowance in full.

From: www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/sml-salary-sacrifice.pdf

Cash benefits - Employers need not continue during OML or AML to provide contractual cash benefits ? such as:
o cash allowances (e.g. housing allowance, car allowance, fuel allowance, or first aid allowance);
o vouchers which have a transferable cash value. This could include, for example, luncheon vouchers, retail vouchers and some vouchers for recreational benefits like membership of sports or other clubs or attendance at sporting fixtures. However this does not include non-cash benefits, such as childcare vouchers which can only be used by the employee and are not transferable ? these must continue to be provided during OML and AML.

I am most surprised that HMRC say that, and say that so categorically. The legal position is nowhere near that clear.

Salary does not have to continue during maternity leave, all other benefits do. So you can only exclude car allowance if you can call it salary. Yet it is normally a separate amount on payslips and is rarely pensionable. It really has more in common with pension contributions. Employment lawyers debate whether you can safely exclude it, but in every case I have been advising employers have decided to pay it. This is especially the case if employees can decide between allowance and actual car. I'm sure there's some stuff in the MN archives too if you wanted...