why am I still working there (sorry long)?

[Janeway]

OK, here goes

I've worked for this company for five years, the first 3 was full time, though part of that time was on 'loan' to a voluntary organisation as part of a partnering arrangement between the company and this org. The terms of this arrangement meant that my desk was away from the main office. After about a year became an associate of the company, basically running a mini-branch office within the voluntary org. whilst taking award winning buildings to site for the company and developing a specialist expertise within my profession that recognised to the extent that I lecture and have been consulted by parliament.

A couple of months before the conclusion of this 3 year partnering arrangement I applied to go part time. I was feeling the stress of working away from the support of the office (admin and tech backup) and being in a very different working environment - basically I was working upto 70hours per week trying to make the partnering arrangement work whilst those around me worked 35hours and had better hols etc... I had considered a work to rule (contract hours where 35) but had decided not to for the knock on effect on both organisations (both practical and staff repercussions at the main office).

During the negotiations I became pregnant (not literally during negotiations!). The company agreed to part time, and the other staff were told that this was due to the pregnancy (again to avoid any knock on effect on staff moral through one of the managers stating that the working hours were excessive).

I worked to within a week of the birth of ds - took only 18weeks maternity leave and returned to work part time. I have since found that:

• I have had my position within the firm unsupported (and on occasion undermined) by the directors
• I have been regularly passed-by for interesting projects, they are generally given to younger guys as rewards for extra hours or to keep up their interest so they don't go elsewhere.
• My workload is increasingly business management and contractual advice / fire fighting. My design skills are being so underutilised as to start wasting away.
• I have never been paid the equivalent of a direct contemporary (male) working in the office. I had understood and accepted this initially due to the lower profitablility of my work within the vol. org (my decision to take that on) but had been promised that this was being redressed.
• I strongly suspect that a new male employee (qualified less time and not an associate of the practice) is on an equivalent (or nearly) salary.

So why do I continue to work there - career-wise it seams dead end as it's not giving me the opportunity to work in the areas that are fun/interesting, and my work is neither appreciated or equitably re-imbursed. I suppose I still feel I have unfinished business in my profession (not yet acheived the goals I've set for myself) and the business is such that sadly this is one of the better practices. Is it time to give up on my ambitions (it's 16 years since I started my training) and turn my talents to another field?

Any thoughts would be grately appreciated - I'm stumped and saddened......

Katherine, I'm no expert but it sounds to me as if you have a sex discrimination case although I wouldn't recommend tribunal tbh! I'll think on this and post more if I think of something helpful. It doesn't sound fair though.

Sorry, Janeway not Katherine, oops, Ms Startrek Captain was obviously in my subconcious when I was typing, how sad is that!

Oh poor you, Janeway. Sounds demoralising. Am utterly ignorant about your field but is it possible to get a new job with another of the better practices where you might be more appreciated and rewarded?

Janeway. The first thing that comes to mind is "flogging a dead horse". I know the feeling. Although nowhere near as bad I know that if I went part-time the same would definitely happen to me which is why I didn't choose the same route as you. There are some things that you can do. For instance you can now demand to see openly what everyone else is being paid however where do you want to take this? The law is on your side here but it would be a bloody long slog and the truth is you would be put under a lot of pressure and be exposed to a lot of resentment. The publicity might then make it difficult for you to move to another job.

However that doesn't mean you have to put up with it. A quiter but I think more effective way is to gently raise the issue with HR and then leave stating your reasons for leaving. Others may well disagree, some might say fight your corner and I couldn't disagree with them on the principle however its bloody hard work and unlikely to give you reward you want which seems essentially to be appreciated for your work.

Don't give up your ambitions! You'll never feel fulfilled if you do. Look for another job - move on and move up.

I don't work part-time because of my fear of experiencing the things you've described. However I still do reasonably well at balancing home at work. Gradually my work has come to understand that I leave between 5 and 6. I go home play, feed and bath my dd and read her a bedtime story. Once she's asleep I then open up my laptop and do another 2-3 hours work. Gradually people have got used to this. I supposed it helps them to see (via a timestamp on the mails) that I'm still working at 10.00 at night. This has been a much quieter approach but I have had a reasonable amount of success. I'm still underpaid and HR have got so used to admitting this that they are even blaise so I'm not achieved everything but I do get respected and I do get looked at in terms of promotion.

Of course it will be back to square one when I return from maternity leave! But as my mum says - you eat an elephant slice by slice (strange saying but I know what it means)

Good luck

janeway, much sympathy. have you given any thought to becoming a free-lance consultant in your field? given your achievements, this might be an avenue you could explore. it's too easy for firms to get around sex discrimination legislation as it stands. good luck.

I don't want to get litigeous over this, I really don't think it'd get me far. The company is small (generally 16-18 people) and the profession is so tight knit in this town that word would spread too quickly. As for contacting HR dept - I'm rapidly becoming that as I recruit the junior staff and have just drafted the grievance procedure (ironic hey) but the big decisions on senior staff and salary stay with the directors. I could just look up the other salaries - I have access to the key to that cupboard, but I'm not supposed to and I'm an honourable person.....

As I said they are one of the better employers in the field, partly due to inclination but also to my gentle influence (many architects firms do not consider taking on women, let alone a part timer in a senior position). At the moment I want to stay part time to give more time to ds (he's only 15 months). I do work evenings to keep my profile high, and the odd additional day (for which I get only childcare costs). This makes my f.t.e. hours very much on a par with the full timers (maybe more), but still the abcences are noticed more.

My annual review is due in August, but much of what I'm complaining about was to be rectified after the last one (though my complaints then where mildly stated).

So I think my choice is stay put and continue to munch elephant or change fields - something in the commissioning of buildings perhaps - much better paid, shorter hours and if you go into the council, greater opportunities for p/t or jobshare plus perhaps more influence in creating a better environment(broad desciption of my goal) as most of the bad buildings I see are as much to do with bad commissioning and bad design.

I'm not intending a snap decision - I'll probably stick it out to the review and give them a another chance to change things...

Thanks all for your time in posting. You've confirmed for me that I'm not being stupid in wanting better than this....

Wills - well done for having such a pragmatic view of things - I can't help riling at the fact that 10 years of experience is just re-set to zero by taking 18 weeks out to do what is necessary for the race to continue (if I was 18 weeks between jobs I wouldn't expect to take a step backwards), and that it's assumed that part time means zero commitment. Perhaps I find those elephants a little too big to swallow, even peice by peice.

I've spent the last 10 years battling through all the stereotypes and preconceptions that exist in this business - I'm tired and the goal is becoming not worth the journey - maybe it's rapidly becoming time to admit that (as the advert says) I am not a salmon...

Start your own business? That's what a hell of a lot of other women do in your situation and are incredibly successful.

Janeway. Why are you working. Do you do it purely for the money, or is it because you want to have a fulfilling life outside being a mother? If the latter, I would question how fulfilling you are actually finding a job where you are so obviously being undervalued.

prufrock - pre ds, when asked about me I defined myself as into "judo, motorbikes and building site" - I've only the building sites left (though the motorbike may soon return if we don't go for a second baby). I suppose I've always worked - I find streching my mind helps my sanity - I don't think I'd be a happy or successful long term SAHM.

Also I have talents and abilities that I feel are worth utilising, and have always maintained that to give up, of conform, would be to fail the next generation of women architects....

Aloha, I thought about going solo when I left my last practice (I'd worked for a one man band for 5 years and so knew what was involved) but decided it wasn't realy for me. I'm not great at putting myself out there to get new work, and the time investment would be too great just now. Contract work is also unlikely to be feasible - it's generally a couple of weeks or months of silly hours (at zero notice) till a package of work is out, then nothing for ages - my childcare options wouldn't cope with that.

Consultancy work (on access issues) may be an option but it would limit my future opportunities more than my current employment, and I would have to carry Professional Indemnity Insurance costs and other overheads even if I wasn't getting any work. The building industry is only just waking up to acessibility issues (with the legislation about to come into full force) but so many people with very little understanding are jumping onto the bandwagon that it's very difficult to offer a quality informed service without being undercut by the ugly ramp merchants.

Just thinking of a quote I knicked from a book "argue for your limitations and sure enough they're yours" (used it with other quotes to illustrate a school design). Having read back through this tread it appears you're all coming up with wonderful suggestions for how I can stay in my field, and I'm knocking them down with practicalities.

I'll go and sleep on them all with a more open mind. Thank you all

How's it going, after a weekend sleeping on it? I think it would be worth talking to the EOC, as I suspect you have a case - even if you don't pursue it via the tribunal route, you'll know for certain where you stand.

The accessibility work does sound interesting (I write quite a bit on disability issues) if you wanted to pursue it...but I take your point about marketing and publicity. You've all my sympathies - and I'm quite sure, incidentally, that I'd make a devastatingly awful SAHM...

janeway, you seem to have such a sane and balanced approach to your job issues, I feel you'll find a solution that works for you.

As a copywriter and mother I felt increasingly at odds with the culture I found in most advertising and design agencies. I have worked in many over the years, permanent and freelance and IME attitudes to part time work and parenthood vary lots from one place to another. IME it's possible you might find an easier company to work for in your field, so don't give up.

Now that I am working in a similar job in the public sector I am bowled over by their acceptance that people have a life outside work. Flexi hours are such a moral booster. It feels like I have escaped from prison So if you think you could transfer your skills to the public sector, and get similar pay and propects, I'd really recommend you see what's out there.