Risk of redundancy - trying to work out length of service...

[sarimillie]

Things are looking rocky at work, and I'm concerned about my job. I joined the company on a nine-month contract part-time in March 2007; this was a with a view to making me permanent after the contract was up, but I then got pregnant with my second child and they decided to "leave things open" during my mat leave (I was there just long enough to qualify for SMP). My company asked me to come back in July 2008, on a permanent contract.

I'm the only part-timer in this role, and - although I've never had targets or an appraisal here - I'm aware, from various comments, that my performance isn't seen to be great. I have asked to discuss things, but not yet had a meeting. Hence the anxiety about redundancy, given that the company is doing porly.

Does anyone know how my length of service would be calculated? Does the mat leave period count as employment? Would length of service count from when I was first employed,
or just from when I was made permanent?

It helps just to have written this down! I hope someone can help.

Unless there was a gap between your employment, your service counts from March 2007. Your maternity leave does not count as a gap in employment unless there was a period of time in which you weren't on maternity leave but weren't back in work yet.

If this is the case you'll have over 2 years service so would qualify for redundancy.

It depends exactly what happened during your maternity 'leave', but you probably have service back to 2007.

Time on maternity leave counts as continuous employment and counts towards the total, as Llareggub has said. The only complication is what you mean by they decided to "leave things open." If you mean that they simply paid your SMP and didn't change anything else, that's all service.

The only time that service wouldn't count is if your employment had actually ended at the end of your temporary contract (or if there was a gap between the end of your maternity leave and your permanent contract). You would know this because they would have issued your P45.

Thannks llarreggub and RibenaBerry! I need to double-check the P45 thing, but I'm pretty sure they didn't issue one. Well, that's a relief - would rather hang onto my job, and I hope that's a possibility, but a few weeks' pay would be lots better than nothing.

Am resurrecting this old thread, since sadly the issue hasn't gone away . I think there will be redundancies soon, and that I am likely to be on the list.

Re. the P45 - I called Inland Revenue and they say that they didn't issue a P45 for me in 2007, and had no leaving details from my employer.

So now I want to double-check whether anyone knows whether I would be eligible for redunducy pay calculated from March 2007 to now, or just July 2008 to now? New info - I was cheered by the advice above, but am now bit concerned to see that my contract (which I signed in July 2008) explicitly states that there is no previous service which counts as continuous employment. Does the fact that I signed this mean I lose the right to argue that I do have previous service that counts? Also - I may soon be asked to sign another document containing the same statement - I assume that that would be a poor idea?

Don't worry. You can't contract out of your length of service for statutory redundancy pay. It is what it is, regardless of what the date is in your contract. Sounds like you just signed a contract with standard wording that hadn't been properly adapted for your previous contract, but like I said it doesn't matter.

Thanks RibenaBerry. I suspect that they know exactly what they are doing in wording the contracts like that - they start most people off on longish short term contracts, if that make sense. But it's good to know that my initial short term contract, maternity leave and service on a permanent contract since coming back from maternity leave will all count if it comes to negotiating redundancy pay...

Satimillie I think you give the HR department too much credit. Most will just use a off the shelf contract they've bought.

You could be right seeyoukay - hope so, anyway!

I'm surprised you've found that seeyoukay, although obviously I don't know how many 'most' HR departments is in your own experience. Personally I don't think I've ever come across a company big enough to have an HR department who decided to purchase an off-the-shelf contract. Ime that tends to be very small companies without any internal HR function and with only very basic requirements when it comes to contracts.

Makes no difference anyway, as Ribena said. Whether they drafted it themselves deliberately using that wording, forgot to amend their standard contract to reflect continuous service or purchased an off-the-shelf contract, your length of service is what it is.

I am almost certain that they would argue that my continuous service dates only from when I came back after maternity leave, which is why it is so good to have you all stating so confidently that this isn't, and can't be argued to be, the case.

Hi

My contracts have similar wording "no other service with another employer blah blah"

In our case this refers to "Temp to Perm" via agency, as whilst they are employed and paid by agency, they are not our employee.

In your case, from what I am reading you were employed direct by the company on a temporary contract ? so for that reason this service from 2007 counts, regardless of the updated contract. Out of curiosity, did they enter ?Continuous employment from? date? I re-wrote our contract (because the ones in action were shockingly poor) and added this to ensure there was no ambiguity in start dates when changing role/t&cs etc. and new contracts were needed to be issued. They quote the ?Date started? which is the date of change, and ?Continuous employment from? which is the ?real? date they became our employee

You state you have no P45 issued, and therefore can reasonable assume your employment started in 2007 and was continuous.

Should they not include the start date from 2007, ask them for evidence to prove they made you a leaver (the P45). The burden will be on the employer to disprove your employment dates. If they cant do this, you started 2007.

Another way to tell is did you get a P60 in 2008 (April/May depending on when the employer gave them out)

You would only get a P60 if you were still in employment during March 2008, as a P45 "closes" an employee and confirms tax paid etc = no need for running total of tax payment (the P60)

I am having a really bad day, so hope you can interpret this into sense. If not, I?ll check if you have any questions.

Thanks OneOf8. The exact wording is "no previous service which counts as continuous employment", but your response and those of others on this thread give me enough information to contest this if necessary...