What counts as antenatal care?

[opalfruity]

I know I can ask for reasonable time off work to attend appointments and that this also includes parent craft and relaxation classes if appropriate.

My problem is that I have been refused time off work to attend a water birth workshop, a breastfeeding workshop and a maternity ward induction/tour of facilities as apparently they do not fall under the statutory remit. I'm not an employment rights expert but I would have assumed that these would all fall under the parent craft heading? They're all pretty important anyway, and my local hospital very helpfully only runs them when I'm at work :-(

That's terrible! Loads of the ladies I went to aquanatal with had time off work to attend, and I'd say that isn't nearly as important as a hospital induction!

Hopefully someone will be along with some advice.

You should be allowed to go to those. Are they organised by the NCT or local NHS authority?

Have you spoken to HR? Some managers are very ignorant when it comes to maternity rights.

Yes, they're all NHS classes. I'm just panicking slightly because I'm coming up to 32 weeks, there's a waiting list for these classes and because it's my first baby I am completely clueless about everything.

I haven't had chance to speak to HR yet, my manager has just sent me an email saying that I've been refused the time off. I'm working from home today and was hoping someone might be able to advise me a bit before I end up saying something stupid at work.

Oh how horried and insensitive of your manager to email.

This is what direct.gov say about time off for antenatal care:

All pregnant employees, however long they have been in their jobs, are entitled to reasonable time off work for antenatal care. Any time off must be paid at your normal rate of pay. It is unlawful for your employer to refuse to give you reasonable time off for ante-natal care or to pay you at your normal rate of pay.

Your employer can ask for evidence of antenatal appointments from the second appointment onwards. If asked you should show your employer a medical certificate showing you're pregnant and an appointment card or some other written evidence of your appointment.

Antenatal care may include relaxation or parent craft classes as well as medical examinations, if these are recommended by your doctor. If you can, try to avoid taking time off work when you can reasonably arrange classes or examinations outside working hours.

I would suggest emailing your manager back (to keep an audit trail) politely asking why the request has been refused and maybe cite some of the wording above "Im sure you are aware it is unlawful to refuse time-off for ante-natal care". I'd also copy HR in on that email.

But first, I'd book your classes as that's most important.

Frankly, you are going to have problems if these things are not medically necessary and not recommended by your doctor.

Could you take an annual leave day or make up the time?

I'm sorry Opal, but I'm with your employer on some of this. This is the actual legislation:

Right to time off for ante-natal care .(1)
An employee who? .
(a)
is pregnant, and .
(b)
has, on the advice of a registered medical practitioner, registered midwife or registered health visitor, made an appointment to attend at any place for the purpose of receiving ante-natal care, .
is entitled to be permitted by her employer to take time off during the employee?s working hours in order to enable her to keep the appointment.
(2)
An employee is not entitled to take time off under this section to keep an appointment unless, if her employer requests her to do so, she produces for his inspection? .
(a)
a certificate from a registered medical practitioner, registered midwife or registered health visitor stating that the employee is pregnant, and .
(b)
an appointment card or some other document showing that the appointment has been made. .
(3)
Subsection (2) does not apply where the employee?s appointment is the first appointment during her pregnancy for which she seeks permission to take time off in accordance with subsection (1). .
(4)
For the purposes of this section the working hours of an employee shall be taken to be any time when, in accordance with her contract of employment, the employee is required to be at work.

The right applies to receiving antenatal care on the advice of a health professional. I am sorry, but I really wouldn't see a hospital tour falling within that. The waterbirth workshop (although, they do a whole workshop on this? Not questioning you, but seems odd given the high numbers of first time mums who want a water birth but can't for some reason) and the breastfeeding workshop do some more like care, but you'd need your midwife to certify them. Do they form part of an antenatal course? I'd take holiday for the hospital tour.

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.

I totally see the point about the tour and I think it's reasonable to ask me to familiarise myself with the maternity unit in my own time. But the others have just completely flummoxed me. I don't understand what would count as a parent craft course if breastfeeding classes don't.

The list of courses is all here - www.newcastle-hospitals.org.uk/services/maternity-unit_courses-and-events.aspx

My midwife has recommended that I book these courses as part of my antenatal care so she obviously seems to think that they do come under the legislation.

I'm a very shy person and I don't want to go in stomping and shouting to anyone at work, but I've literally only got 1 hour of annual leave left so it's impossible for me to take all of these as holiday.

Does anybody have a definition of a parent craft and/or relaxation workshop that I can have a look at? Or is it a case that, if I get something from my midwife confirming that she has recommended it for me then that is enough to comply with the legislation?

You need to get your midwife to write a letter on headed paper saying that you need to attend these classes. My employer didn't want to let me attend an appointment to have anti-D and see the community midwife in a seperate appointment in the same week.

I had similar fun and I worked in a school so taking annual leave was not an option.

Having slept on it I would advocate a less stroppy wording (was having a frustrating day dealing with work who were not being reasonable and I lost all perspective - sorry). Something along the lines that your MW has advised these classes and you understand so would it be acceptable to go if she is prepared to write a letter to that effect?

I do think though that these problems are often made worse by health care agencies thinking you can just come along at any time which is extremely annoying. As if you packed up work at 25 weeks and put your feet up...

I think getting your GP/MW to write a letter to your employer stating they are necessary as part of your antenatal care makes it very hard for your employer to argue otherwise.

Alternatively could you request it as unpaid leave if you don't have enough holiday?

And I meant "you understand their position so would it..."

Opal - the stuff about parentcraft classes and relaxation is not in the legislation, so there is no definition of them as such. They're actually the wrong words to focus on.

Have a look back at the legislation I posted. This is the key bit:

has, on the advice of a registered medical practitioner, registered midwife or registered health visitor, made an appointment to attend at any place for the purpose of receiving ante-natal care.

What you want to do is ask your midwife to write you a certificate saying that she/he has recommended that you attend X as part of your antenatal care, and to make out an appointment card/letter for you. The legislation doesn't define antenatal care, so pretty much if the midwife or doctor says it is, then it is!

Hi Opal

I recently had my maternity meeting with my employer and she advised that all ante-natal care apointments/scans etc were covered for paid time off, and also any classes that are recommended by a midwife.

This will be my 3rd baby so I'm not attending the classes (well, not all of them) however my employer said they were all covered and I just needed to let them know.

Last time I got severe SPD and aqua-natal helped so am going to try to get the time off for those this time if the SPD gets as bad.

Not sure if this has helped at all!

Thanks so much everyone for your replies.

After some written confirmation from my midwife HR have agreed the time off. Result!