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Flexible Working Appeal - More Help Please

17 replies

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 09:46

It's me again! My workplace has told me that I'm not entitled to take a trade union representative into the appeal meeting regarding my flexible working appeal.

They have said I can a work colleague. I thought I could take a TU rep in, are they right or am I? Thank you!

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reddaisy · 25/01/2010 09:47

flexible working request, not appeal

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HappyMummyOfOne · 25/01/2010 11:02

Business link indicates it can be a trade union rep as long as they work at another premises.

If its just a meeting to discuss the application, I cant see the need for one tbh.

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 11:20

Thanks HappyMummy. It is an appeal meeting to discuss their reasons for turning me down.

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RibenaBerry · 25/01/2010 11:36

I've just looked at the legislation and, weirdly, it is actually only a colleague you are eligible to take into the meeting as a matter of law, so your employer is right.

If your workplace is unionised, the union agreement may specify their right to attend, however. Also, if the union rep works at your workplace, obviously they are also a colleague.

I've never come across an employer refusing this to be honest. Since reps can come to disciplinary/redundany meetings, the general culture is to allow them to come to any important meeting like this.

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 11:47

Dammit. I was hoping they were wrong . I said they were being obstructive. My union rep is a bit combative anyway so it might not be a bad thing.

The directgov site says I can take in a work colleague or union rep so this stuff is very confusing.

They have also said that my colleague cannot talk in the meeting but everything I have read has said my colleague can talk and ask questions but that he cannot answer questions on my behalf/speak for me. Do you know if he can talk RibenaBerry? Thank you!

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reddaisy · 25/01/2010 11:50

Dammit. I was hoping they were wrong . I said they were being obstructive. My union rep is a bit combative anyway so it might not be a bad thing.

The directgov site says I can take in a work colleague or union rep so this stuff is very confusing.

They have also said that my colleague cannot talk in the meeting but everything I have read has said my colleague can talk and ask questions but that he cannot answer questions on my behalf/speak for me. Do you know if he can talk RibenaBerry? Thank you!

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reddaisy · 25/01/2010 11:51

Sorry for double post, computer is playing up a bit today

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RibenaBerry · 25/01/2010 11:58

You're right on that bit. The section of legislation is here:

Right to be accompanied
14. - (1) This regulation applies where -

(a) a meeting is held under regulation 3(1) or 8(1), and

(b) the employee reasonably requests to be accompanied at the meeting.

(2) Where this regulation applies the employer must permit the employee to be accompanied at the meeting by a single companion who -

(a) is chosen by the employee and is within paragraph (3),

(b) is to be permitted to address the meeting (but not to answer questions on behalf of the employee), and

(c) is to be permitted to confer with the employee during the meeting.

(3) A person comes within this paragraph if he is a worker employed by the same employer as the employee.

(4) If -

(a) an employee has a right under this regulation to be accompanied at a meeting,

(b) his chosen companion will not be available at the time proposed for the meeting by the employer, and

(c) the employee proposes an alternative time which satisfies paragraph (5),

the employer must postpone the meeting to the time proposed by the employee.

(5) An alternative time must -

(a) be convenient for employer, employee and companion, and

(b) fall before the end of the period of seven days beginning with the first day after the day proposed by the employer.

(6) An employer shall permit a worker to take time off during working hours for the purpose of accompanying an employee in accordance with a request under paragraph (1)(b).

(7) Sections 168(3) and (4), 169 and 171 to 173 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992[4] (time off for carrying out trade union duties) shall apply in relation to paragraph (6) above as they apply in relation to section 168(1) of that Act.

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 12:11

Thanks RibenaBerry. My appeal meeting is this afternoon so I'm trying to get as much prep work done as I can while DD has her nap.

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Reallytired · 25/01/2010 12:22

good luck, let us know how it goes. I in exactly the same position as you.

I had my appeal meeting last week and it was very positive, but I haven't yet had anything in writing to confirm that my flexible working request has been granted.

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 12:25

Hi Reallytired - just out of interest did another manager not involved with your original application hold the appeal? Fingers crossed for you too.

I am due back at work on Friday!!! So I really want them to give me an answer asap. I have been trying to sort this out since October. Grrr.

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Reallytired · 25/01/2010 12:44

I wasn't given any right of appeal so I have used the school's grievence proceedure instead.

I work in a school and the school have made a complete and utter pig's ear of my flexible working application. I never had an intial meeting to discuss my flexible working application.

The inital meeting just consisted of the deputy head saying no, on the grounds on continuity. It was also at this meeting that I found that my job was changing quite radically.

Previously I was a technician working under a network manager, but now they want me to be the sole technician and the school have contracted out network management to an external company without telling me. Varying my contract without discussion has made it very hard for me to make a fair application for me to work flexibly. I'm not getting any pay rise inspite of being expected to work more on my own initative.

Its been a bit of joke. The citizen's advice bureau say I have a very strong case for an employment tribunal.

Reallytired · 25/01/2010 12:45

Sorry, my appeal/ grievence meeting was taken by the head teacher. The school I am working at doesn't understand quite how much sh!t they are in.

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 12:49

What a nightmare. What are you going to do? Are you taking them to a tribunal? It is shocking how common it is to balls up these kind of requests, you would think employers would cover their backs through every step. Good luck.

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Reallytired · 25/01/2010 13:05

Employees have the right to request flexible wokring, but not the right to flexible working. However if an employer is completely and utterly unreasonable then it is indirect sex discrimination. The employer has to have a very strong business reason for making someone work full time.

The whole thing is a complete and utter minefield. If you are having problems and the trade union aren't helping you then its worth speaking to the CAB.

Bare in mind there are time limits for submitting a claim to an employment tribunal. Three months less a day from an incident that you are complaining about. Also you have to mitigate your losses, ie. actively apply for jobs.

reddaisy · 25/01/2010 18:14

I am not thinking about taking them to a tribunal. I will go back full time if I really have to. I have just had my appeal meeting and it went well so I am keeping my fingers crossed that the woman who chaired it might overrule my boss.

And thanks RibenaBerry for detailing the legislation, I took a copy in of it and they let my colleague have permission to speak! It is a small point to make to them but I think it shows that they don't know exactly what they are doing.

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DeirdreB · 26/01/2010 09:46

Glad to hear it went well! Fingers crossed.

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