Flexible Working Appeal Help

[reddaisy]

Hi

I am new here and looking for some help please.
I have recently submitted my offical appeal against my employers decision to turn down my request to work flexibly. ( I am due back to work after ML next week)

I requested four days instead of five and office hours of 9-5 instead of 11-7pm.

Among other things, my employers did not follow the official guidelines and responded to our meeting outside of the 14 days permitted. But when it comes to an appeal how much does not following the guidelines actually matter? Will it actually make any difference to their decision?

In my appeal letter I detailed in some length where I felt they had gone wrong during the process and my union official is now cross with me as he feels I have given my employer all our ammunition and it should have been saved for the hearing. Is this true? It was my understanding that my appeal had to detail where I think they had gone wrong.

Any advice would be great thanks! Apologies if this is a double post, I'm still finding my way around here.

Sorry to hear your request was turned down.

I am not a lawyer but know a bit.. Unfortunately under the legislation, failure to adhere to procedure can be challenged but this can be rectified and is unlikely to make a difference to their decision.

The decision can also be challenged under discrimination law and the case law shows that this is more likely to be successful.

Hopefully you will be able to find examples of requests granted in the past and build your case on that.

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply DeirdreB. My department is male orientated and although there are other women I am the only mother so I haven't got any examples of other requests that have been granted unfortunately.

I know my appeal is being held my a manager outside of my department - at my request - so I hope whoever holds it might consider my request to be more reasonable than my boss did!

As Deirdre said, the procedural stuff if just procedural. You can get something for it, but it doesn't change the outcome. You were right to detail it all in your appeal letter though. If the union rep is getting hung up on that side, he's not doing the best job for you and you need to refocus him.

The appeal should be focused on why turning you down was unreasonable and how the business could agree your request. What reason did they give for saying no? Do you consider those reasons to be genuine and relevant? If not, why not?

I would suggest dealing with the hours and days separately, as there are likely to be different issues.

It's a shame that the legislation sends employees down such a confrontational route when a rational conversation could sometimes result in a half way house that works.

Can you find out if there are any flexible workers in the "wider" organisation and how they succeeded? Sometimes, getting a "sensible" HR person involved in the conversation is useful as they may have some ideas that work.

You are right to include details of how procedure wasn't followed. However as everyone else has said, it won't make a difference to their decision, so focus on why their rejection of your request wasn't reasonable. Make sure you address all the concerns they raised, and emphasise how your request will benefit the business.

Thank you for the responses Ribena and flowerybeanbag.

DeidreB - you are exactly right about how this is turning confrontational as that was exactly what I didn't want just before I go back to work after a year's ML.

And I have a feeling that in this instance, where it is evident that my work simply do not want to accommodate my request despite it being feasible,that the legislation is pretty useless because as long as they tick the right box and give the right response, they have the right to refuse my request.

Another quick couple of questions, should it be me doing most of the talking in an appeal meeting, or my union rep?

And if this issue isn't resolved before my return date to work, what happens then? Do I have to go back and work the days/hours they want me to in the meantime or can I get my ML extended as I have been trying to get this sorted since October. I am due back at work next week.

Thanks again!

No no no! The legislation isn't useless. It's just that the flexible working legislation is pretty toothless. The sex discrimination rules mean that, even if they tick every box, if their decision isn't for a good business reason, you could potentially sue.

I would suggest that you do most of the talking in the appeal. The aim is to convince the manager that your working pattern could work. You're going to know that far, far better than some union rep. I would suggest that your tone is "I was really disappointed that my request was refused. I'm confident my suggestions can work and here's all the good reasons why".

Where your rep could talk is your point about the return date. You cannot extend maternity leave as such (unless you haven't taken absolutely the full 52 weeks) but you could be on special unpaid leave, or parental leave until it's sorted. He could make all the points about delay, etc, without you having to get confrontational.

Thanks for the advice RibenaBerry.

They turned me down to go four days because they said my position was too senior and said it would put undue pressure on the existing staff to cover me. They won't employ someone to cover the day off each week.

But they said they will offer me four days if I accept a demotion. So surely that shows that they can redistribute the workload for the day off each week I want if they are prepared to demote me and still not employ someone new? (I am assuming that they will promote my ML cover to my position and we would effectively swap roles).

The tricky thing about flexible working is that you doing any kind of reduced hours shouldn't lead to others having to do more...

Can you find a way to meet their objections about covering you on your day off? EG work can be allocated differently / someone may be keen for a promotion, but they are not quite ready yet, so they could (willingly) deputise for that 5th day?

I am not sure it would make sense for them to employ someone else for 1 day a week.

Not sure I understand your last point...if they are offering a demotion to another role where work is more easily redistributed, I wouldn't expect you to be doing the same role you are doing now - hence the swap in roles with your mat cover?

Although I would say it's good practice to have a trial period with any flex working agreement, perhaps if you specifically and directly request this, you can persuade them to try it (especially if there is no current precendent to demonstrate it can work)?

What Evil said (oooh, a new person I can say that about. It's normally ' What Flowery said').

Hi again!

Sorry if it wasn't clear.

I asked for a trial during my original meeting to discuss flexible working. They said no.

I am a deputy of a department and the assistant of the department has been acting up into my position during the ML.

They have proposed that I am demoted to assistant and she becomes deputy if I want the four days.

I suggested that they used some of the money saved from me going down to four days a week to pay my ML cover to act up into my position 1 day a week and if they need someone to act up into her position then they could let someone else cover her position one day a week too to help them progress if that makes sense.

My work did not recruit ML cover or pay the department assistant of department to act up either so I don't see why it is suddenly so urgent that I come back to do a full five day week.

It does sound like your work are being "resistant", so you need to create a bullet proof business case and show them it can be done and you are the person to do it!!

From what you said above, there are probably three areas you need to focus on
A) Supervision
B) Reducing work of the department by 7 hours per week
C) Hours (9-5 versus 11-7)

A) If it doesn't already exist, there should be a robust "comand and control" procedure, with training if necessary, which deals with decision making when you are not there - on holiday, in meetings, missing in action etc and offer an if all else fails (ie extreme circumstances) given x amount of notice, you can get the kids to somewhere safe and phone in. Choose your day off carefully to minimise business disruption - possibly not Friday if things need to be cleared up by then? Could the person who covered your maternity, cover you on your day off (possibly not ideal..) - extra pay offset by your 20% saving...

B) Look at roles and responsibility and distribution of work and move some from your role (could be admin, project, a chunk of your job). Look at areas of inefficiency (controversial but could make everyones life easier!) and review activities of the department to ensure all activities are required and should be done by your team.

C) Hours: Could this be flexible? Could your childcare be moved? Could your DP do a couple of drop off / pick ups a week? Could you offer a 6-7 slot from home if your DP is home?

Good Luck!!

Thanks Deirdre B.

A) I have never had any management training despite being promised it three years ago but the procedure you describe makes sense. There are plenty of people more senior than me in the office who can make decisions in my absence which makes their refusal to accept four days even more annoying. I proposed that my ML cover did my job one day a week, therefore progressing her and plugging the gap left by me. I know she would like my job anyway so I thought it would work well.

B) I could definitely look at this, but like you said it would be unlikely to be popular!

My DP is self-employed and his work is very unpredictable at the moment and because of the recession we can't afford to turn down jobs for him when they come up.

It is likely that he could cover some 7pm finishes but some weeks if he is away for example I would have to get my DD from nursery by 6.30pm. I offered to do 7pm finish on weeks where he is around but that some weeks it would not be possible and they would need to understand that. They responded by saying I would need to do a set number per month.

I really do appreciate all your help. I will spend some time over the weekend putting together a case. Again!