Is this bullying? Advice please.

[confusion]

Firstly I have name changed. Secondly trying to keep it gender neutral to make sure there is less chance of anyone identifying me. Thirdly, sorry this is so long!

I need some advice. I'm not sure if this is bullying or not but it is really getting me down.

I have recently started working with someone more senior than me (not my line manager though) on one job. They are very 'assertive' or what I would actually just call not very nice!

It feels as though nothing I do is right. The person seems to moan whatever is done that it isn't right - they always finds something wrong.

If the person takes issue with a piece of work they don't take you aside and offer what i would think of as constructive criticism and advice of how to do it better next time. Instead the person points out your errors in a public office, loudly with lots of people around and basically says that you have done 'x , y and z wrong'. I feel as though I am being totally undermined by this person in front of people more senior than me, at my level and more junior.

The person has a tone of voice in these situations of frustration, making it obvious that she is really not impressed.

The person will make comments such as 'Would you not think it is common sense to do x as well if you were doing y anyway' - these comments are made loudly in front of other people. And clearly I didn't think it was common sense as otherwise I would have done it!

The instructions this person gives aren't particularly clear. They seem to expect you to be proactive when it suits them, yet when you are actually proactive they seem to moan about it.

The person also seems to do everything last minute and then expects you to drop everything else you were working on to get it done on time. They then get frustrated when it isn't done to the quality or standard they expect.

Their briefs are really vague. They lack detail and the person thinks they have told you things that they haven't and then you almost get blamed for not being psychic!

It is all getting me so down. This person has reduced me to tears three times in the past three weeks. Last night I had a sleepless night and literally had nightmares about something I had to do for this person today as I knew that no matter how well I did it, it wouldn't be good enough. It all seemed to go fine as far as I was concerned - maybe not quite the way that this person would have done it but it seemed to work. Of course it wasn't good enough and the person did their usual thing of talking down to me and speaking to me like I'm stupid.

The other thing that this person does is talk negatively about something I have done across the other side of the office to someone else, not specifically mentioning me but just speaking negatively about something I've done. I don't know if this person thinks they are being quiet but they really aren't!

I just don't know if I am being over sensitive about this - I am quite a shy person in general and so maybe I am just being sensitive. I'm also someone whose confidence can be knocked easily. I feel as though I'm absolutely useless right now and I know that my other work is slipping and I'm not doing as well as I would normally on things because I am getting so stressed by it.

I also know that one other colleague has been reduced to tears by this person in the past and that this colleague ended up complaining. I have also heard that other people have complained about this person.

It has got to the point now where walking near this persons desk just makes me feel sick (sorry - I know that is stupid). I'm exhausted having had about 2.5 hours sleep last night, half of which was in a nightmare about this person, but can't see any point in going to bed as I am just going to lie there feeling ill and unable to sleep.

I feel like quitting because I feel so ill over it all but then I don't think my DH would be too impressed when we can't pay the bills!

Anyway, sorry this has been so long. I really just want someone to tell me if it seems like I'm over reacting, if this is bullying and also any advice!

Thank you.

Sorry that is way longer than I expected!

Hmm
Couldn't read and not post - but I'm not sure if I have anything to offer.
I think she probably feeds off you saying nothing. I think I would probably go a bit ott, and everytime she point out a mistake I would say (loudly) "Thank you so MUCH for showing me a better way...again!!! I really really appreciate that you have taken the time to - once again - tell me how to improve." Have a bit of fun with it.
Etc etc
But I may be a bit passive aggressive.

It does seem like bullying, but you have to stand up for yourself, even if its in a small way.

Is she meant to be training you?

Hello confusion
This is a horrible situation and I wondered if my experience of bullying at work would help you. I was bullied in what sounds like a similar fashion - comments being made loudly and directly to others in an open office that were clearly about me - and various other things - I also felt sick walking past the person's desk and this person was in a more junior role than I (but was 20 years older than me). She had bullied quite a few other people in the office and had been the subject of various complaints though none made official. At the outset of the situation (as we had been friends) I asked her if I had done something to upset her and could we talk about it (this was over email) but she didn't respond and I never had the guts to confront her about the way she was behaving as I knew (or feared) it would just be one of those situations where she would make it sounds like I was blowing it out of all proportion - you know the personality type, where they are always right and you would basically have to be the same type of person as them to settle the score with them. I did go and see HR and they begged me to make a formal complaint so she could be disciplined. At the same time I moved offices (within the building) - which made sense due to the type of work I was doing. I'd recommend something similar. I can't remember where I found it on the internet but I did a search for bullying and victimisation in the workplace and found a bullet list that made me realise it was bullying. It might have been this one www.bullyonline.org/workbully/amibeing.htm Do the thing where you list specific instances and quote what was said and done, dated and timed etc in context. Employers owe a duty of care to you in terms of health and safety and this includes the effects of not doing what they can to prevent bullying or take action in situations like these. It sounds tricky but is there any way you could come up with an alternative where you didn't have to work with this person? This was what saved me! And partly going and speaking to someone about it seemed to give me back some feeling of being in control of the situation and like I wasn't just beimg silly - you're not - this sort of thing is little things that add up together over time and they are utterly destructive. I think you do just get these sorts of people in work and life generally and if you can keep your head above it, and think of all alternatives so that maybe you have something to suggest to your employer, then hopefully you might be able to move on from this horrible situation? Good luck!

Thank you! Your post made me smile!

No, the person isn't supposed to be training me - they are more senior than me and I am working on a job they are doing.

Your right, I do feel as though I need to stand up for myself a bit more. I have been tempted to ask the person not to speak to me like that and to tell them to come and find me when they have calmed down/want to be polite! Only I don't think I'm brave enough to do that!

The problem is as well that this person kind of leaves you standing there a bit gobsmacked by what she is saying and doesn't give you a chance to speak - I actually found myself starting a sentence repeatedly and saying it over and over until she listened because she interrupted and kept trying to talk over me.

Bullying seems like such an over used word and it probably isn't bullying. Even if it was I don't quite know what I would do as I wouldn't want to make an official complaint.

Zoonose cross post there.

Thank you for the advice. It has helped to hear your experience and I'll take a look at that link. Thank you.

Well I have been kind of keeping on top of it on the assumption that this is a contract project that we are working on and that in the new year I hopefully won't have to work with this person again. I'm not sure though if it might get extended though and that is what is worrying me.

I think I maybe need to mention it 'off the record' at first to my line manager - maybe just in a making aware type of way. I know that other people have had these same issues. I think this person only gets away with it because she has been there for so long!

She has the exact same personality as the person who bullied you by the sounds of it! Loves the sound of her own voice, seems to have an overly elevated opinion of herself. Saying that I'm sure she must be good at her job as she has kept it for so long!

I don't think you are overreacting as I had being on a similar position a couple of years ago. It was a mind breaking experience for which I ended two months signed off sick with stress but I fought my way out and this is what I learned: Your first step is to keep a diary where you will log every incident with this particular person. Once you have a clear case, you must try to discuss it with your line manager in a formal way.
This might help as 1)they have a legal duty to care for the health and safety of the employee, 2)is going to cost them lots if you eventually get sign off due stress and 3)if mishandled you could make a case for an employment tribunal.
It might also help you a lot if you get in touch with your GP who can refer you for counseling as well as getting in touch with the people of the Citizens advice bureau who will assist you step by step on how to deal legally with this matter at work.

Ooh ooh ooh!!! And when she says you did something wrong, say " IKNOW!!! and I think I could have done xyz better as well..."
Just totally wrong foot her. I bet after awhile you will be waiting for her to say something, so you can say something back. Meanwhile she will be avoiding you.

Def mention it to your line manager though, and make sure the people that really matter are happy with your work.

and what margarita says

Thanks Margarita!

It has been so helpful posting here. I no longer feel like I'm going mad! I'm not looking forward to going into work tomorrow but I at least feel I have got it off my chest now!

I am going to make a list tomorrow of the instances and when they were and then take it from there.

I'm still not sure whether to make a formal complaint initially or whether I should speak to my line manager and then take it from there.

Thanks all.

purpleduck lol - sounds like I could actually have fun with this. I need to stop feeling warn down by it I think and just start fighting back a bit!

By all means go to your line manager, but you do have to stand up for yourself as well - to raise your confidence.

People like her aren't usually mean, they usually have poor self esteem.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on

Thank you. I will do.

I can really empathise with your situation. I have had a similar situation, ongoing for a very long time until I did something about it. It is quite unbelievable how very, very bad it can make you feel. I can point you in the direction of things to do and things not to do, learnt from experience, and certainly I wish I had been more aware of how to go about dealing with my situation at an earlier stage. If you wish to contact me off line (CAT?), please do.

Good luck.

Confusion it's really hard to make a fair judgement on cases like these because inevitably we all see the bits that relate to our own experience. But taking it on face value that you say you don't think it is actual bullying, it sounds to me as if you have just hit a department which is old school private sector 'hot house'(or possibly male-dominated?) and they do just charge past your sensibilities. If this is the case, the perp may have no idea that you are finding it difficult. I agree with others that you do need to shout up for yourself, but try not to be confrontational until you have worked out whether that gets results.

Does this person speak to everyone/others in the same way? If so, at least you can conclude that it's not personal.

It's true if you have an actual bully you do need to make notes of 'incidents' but you may not get very far if it's just a case of them being a bit tough/mean. Whilst I would back you to the utmost if you need to do that (I've been there), can I just say that you are absolutely right when you say 'bully' is an over-used word. So over-used, in fact, that many senior managers just take it as indication that the 'victim' can't cope rather than that there is something wrong per se (which is also why you would need itemised evidence: to avoid that assumption). Sorry if that is a shock to some people... it's just a case of too many people 'crying wolf'.

I suspect it's the former, though - just stick up for yourself and don't take it to heart. At least it's short-term.

I'm not convinced that whether this could be defined as bullying matters too much tbh. Everyone's definition is different anyway. The bottom line is it's not acceptable, it's getting you down and therefore you need to work out what's the best thing to do to get it to stop.

I'm a firm believer that the best way to get someone like this to actually stop is to try addressing it yourself. Your reaction (or lack of reaction) to this behaviour is what's making this person think it's ok. If you can react by standing up for yourself this person's view of you and of what they can get away with with you will change. It won't necessarily if you go to your line manager or make a formal complaint.

I'm not saying both of those aren't options to consider, but in my experience altering your behaviour and challenging it yourself are more likely to have an impact and are more likely to keep relations and the working environment more pleasant than a formal or informal complaint to someone else.

Try requesting a meeting with this person, explaining to them what the behaviour is that you find unacceptable, giving examples and ask them to change it. If they don't change it then every time it happens, say something privately to them. Behaviour is more likely to change if there is some kind of negative consequence each time it happens and if you respond calmly and appropriately opointing it out to this person every single time it happens, they may soon get very bored of it.

I know it's hard confronting someone but I do honestly think it's the best thing to try first if you can. It is more likely to increase this person's respect for you which is obviously not high enough at the moment, and should you then have to complain to someone else, will recmove the option of this person saying 'well I had no idea she never told me it was getting her down, she should have said something.

Just to back up what others have said, I think that discussing it with the other person is a good idea, BUT, please make sure you have a witness to your meeting.

Until you let it slip it was a woman, I was convinced you were talking about a man I worked with.

Take notes after each meeting/encounter. Always send an email immediately after with a confirmation of what you talked about e.g.

Dear X

Following on from our meeting, can I just confirm you want me to do X, Y and Z.

Do you want me to do A,B and C as well or would you prefer I do D? Do you have any objections to me using method G?

Confusion

It's a bit of an annoyance, but is a really good way of keeping a contemporus record of everything that goes on between you and, if she fails to respond, you can take that as agreement on her part. You can then, when she has a hissy fit about an imagined instruction, refer back to the emails. Actually, its a method I use now with my boss, even though we get on fine. It means we have an understanto be done and by whom.

I once was reduced to sending my delightful coworker an email that said something like

Dear Y

I couldn't fail to notice that you disapprove of my method of doing Z. Would you like to discuss this in a quieter environment as I couldn't quite make out your exact objection to my methods from the other side of the room.

Regards

Slug

Admittedly this was when our relationship, and his relationship with almost all of my team had broken down completely. By this point I was recording every encounter so I had proof.

Have to say I disagree with scaredofcows' suggestion of taking a witness to a discussion with the person in question. If you are having an informal discussion with a colleague you don't need a witness. The idea of not making it a formal complaint is to attempt to resolve it amicably and get the other person to stop behaving in this way while maintaining a decent atmostphere and working environment.

If you say you want to talk to this person but then say you want to bring a witness to the discussion, it's unlikely the person will be inclined to take your comments in a constructive positive manner. If the situation is so bad that you don't feel you can speak to this person without a witness present, then a formal grievance is more likely to be the way to go. Having a witness makes it more formal anyway.

How was your day confusion?