DH has disciplinary hearing - please help me

[magpumpkin]

My DH has been really stupid, he is a sales rep and has a company mobile phone. He was in normal month sales meeting last week and was asked to stay behind. He was then told by his MD that he was under performing on his work and totally bollacked about his misuse of company phone ie sending over 100 text messages in the month of sept during working hours. He held his hand up to this stating his mate was in marriage trouble and was shoulder to cry on and it would not happen again.
Today he had a quick meeting with his boss (which my DH asked for) taking with him ammunition to prove that he was not the worst rep and that there was another rep below him not performing. His boss told him that hte underperformance was not the real problem but the misuse of the phone. Was told that a letter would be coming out detailing all this. When he gets home tongiht he tells me that 5 mins beforehand a phone call comes in from his boss to say that he hsa a disciplinary hearing next friday. Is it likely he can be dismissed for this offence , he has not been pulled up on it beforehand and he has heard that they have brought in another rep already to cover his area. Do you think if he is sacked that it could be construde as constructive dismissal? I am so mad at him, that he could jepodise our family unit like this all for a fucking friendship...

Ribena - your bluntness is was I need. Even though it is not whta I want to hear. The company did not supply a copy of the evidence against my H in his disciplinary letter. When my H asked for this he was told "thats up to the MD" H said no it's the law I have to have the info to which he was told "fine but we won't email/fax you will have to come down to the office (1.5hrs away) tomorrow night at 6.00pm to collect it.
I have mentioned to my H that he needs to offer the info about the next bill and to offer reimbersement straight away. He has not used the phone for personel stuff since.

As the company rules do not have an outright ban on private use of phone, just requires reimbursement of provate calls, surely he would be complying with the rules if he offers reimbursement straight away before the bill comes in. Are there any set company procedures for reimbursement? He wouldn't be able to reimburse until the bill comes in anyway as he would not know the cost until then. Was the problem with the first bill due to the fact that he did not tell them beforehand that he had calls to reimburse?

The other issue is using company time to make the calls/texts, but as it was due to a one- off event and I presume is not still going on it would seem overly harsh to go straight to dismissal on this.

Mag - it is the company's resposibility to provide your DH with copies of any evidence they intend to rely on in the disciplinary hearing. If they do not supply it any action taken against him as a result of the meeting is unfair. I can't see that it would be seen as reasonable to expect him to travel long distances to collect it as they should be making the effort as they are bringing the action. Whats the problem, it is only a phone bill ffs!

Yorkshire - He has never paid for any previous personal use - no one at the company has - I believe it because of the amount this time - come off it 300 text calls would be a bloody long phone bill. They can't not call him up on it. I will suggest to H that when in the meeting he is totally upfront with the fact that Oct bill could be bad and offers to reimberse it straight away.

I agree that the policy isn't 100% clear, but it does say no personal calls. The bit about reimbursement seems to be a caveat if you have nevertheless used the phone for personal reasons and, to me, implies low levels of use. It's the sheer number of calls that worries me here.

I totally agree with Yorkshire Rose on evidence. It's their responsibility to supply it in a reasonable way.

Yes I agree he would deserve a warning but instant dismissal? Seems too extreme to me.

The company policy is not a total ban according to OP, has some provision for some personal use with reimbursement, though her DH has taken it to extremes. The policy does not give any guidance on what would be acceptable use, though.

Oh, I agree. I've said further up I think it's borderline. I just think that, if they're keen for him to go, they might take the risk and I don't think it's so cut and dried that you could go into a tribunal really confident you'd win. I think it would turn on the tribunal's sympathy, which is always a risky position to be in as a claimant.

Don't have anything further to add to the excellent advice from Ribena and others but did wonder - as he says the calls/texts were due to his friend having marriage difficulties, will the bill bear this out i.e. will the majority of the calls be to a single number? Also, sorry if you have mentioned this before but are the texts/calls mostly outside of working hours? If they are, then at least it can't be argued that they were interfering with his normal working day.

Further update - H went into work last nigth to colect the evidence (phone Bill) It was given to him by the MD who said "If it was up to me you would have been sacked last Tuesday but I was talked out of it - you have a choice a tracker will be placed on your car and your phone/fax at home will be taken away and you will be office based from now on" So hopefully it means only a warning letter (a severe one at that) Will let you know more tomorrow. Now I have to deal with the personal side of this issue - the messages goin back & forth was to a woman.. Bastard - I here you all say - yes i know I have some serious decisions to make. Thankyou again for all your support. Fingers crossed it goes ok. He has some serious sucking up to do at work and more important now at home.

Why are they placing a tracker on his car? Seems a bit MI6!

im guessing yorkshire as it is a company car and they want to make sure he isnt abusing the privilege?

magpumpkin, i am pleased he has kept his job, for your sake. calls/texts to another woman is a whole other issue - but totally agree - BASTARD - does spring to mind. Good Luck xxx

Thanks for the update mag. Poor you. What a shit.

Oh Mag, I'm so sorry, I was thinking about you today for some reason and hoping that it would go OK tomorrow. It sounds as if he will keep his job so I hope you will be able to work through the personal side of things as well.

H has been in the meeting - The company state the 346 "personal" calls (not as decsirbed in the disciplinary letter)constitutes theft from the company. But the company did not & at the moment have not supplied my H with the evidence of all these calls. The only info provided to him shows only 98 calls made o/o/h- 60 of them are work numbers & the rest are personal over 21 day period. He has told them that he requires this extra paperwork to try to look through at the weekend. Thye have also placed a tracker on his car today - before all the evidence has been seen. Do they need to also gove him some official paperwork to stipulate the rights & wrongs of using a tracker device etc. What happens when the tracker shows that he speeding etc can they pull him up for that? God when will this nightmare finish.

They definitely have to stipulate what use of the car (verified by the tracker) is acceptable, otherwise he could innocently be in breach of their unwritten rules.Not very fair! But then

With regard to the October bill, I hope your husband has

May I ask why why you are so angry with your husband about this? If he was helping a friend, that is surely a good deed - if stupidly executed, without regard for his responsibility to keep himself in work. And yes, he is performing poorly, and someone else commented that it was not impressive to have been compiling self-serving spreadsheets in work hours, when he is already in performance-related trouble. But are you particularly stressed, or is it is the other issue you hinted at but did not explain? Please tell me to mind my own business if you want, but it does seem that there is something else clouding this issue.

WingedVictory, Mag has mentioned in a message that the texts/calls turn out not to have been to a friend in need but to another woman - hence the additional stress. I am assuming the company have requested his Oct bill in advance of the phone co sending it out but if they are using that against your dh, then he should definitely be given it to check.

I know nothing about trackers, monitoring speed or anything connected to that but again, your dh must get very clear guidance from the company on allowable mileage. Do they expect him to keep within one overall limit or will he be expected to justify each and every journey, personal or work-related?

Oh, sorry, I missed that bit about the texts completely. Sorry.

H advsied me when i home on Friday that in the company statement they stated "gross misconduct which constitutes theft from the company" which I know they can instanty dismiss him. But they didn't. He disputed the evidence as they did not give him all the information required for us to defend. He has repeatidly asked for this info but he was told by the MD that "you have everyhting thast correspondes to the charge" but the MD also said "I doubt very much that Mark would have discussed the other bill that we have? as we have not gone through it yet" Surley if they have disclosed this to my H unoffically and we have introduced this in our statement they cannot hold this back to use against him again on another hearing? H also told me that in the original meeting when he was first informed about the calls the MD saiod to "I put it to you that you do know who these numbers belong to - do you want me to post a copy off this bill to your wife" Nice man eh.
Tracker has been fitted now with no procedure or discussion as to the compnay policy on it.

He's been handed a final written warning and told thats the end of the matter as far as the compnay are concerned. They will keep it on file for 12 momths. The Oct bill will not be used against him as it wasn't as bad as the Sept one. He still needs to clairify the siutatipn regarding the tracker though. Do you think we should still go to the solicitro tomoorw to make sure we have crossed all the I's and dotted the T' just case they come at him again? And to find out the rules on this tracker? Thankyou all wise MN for all the support and information you have given me.

Yes worth talking it through with solicitor - final written warning still sits on his record and can be referred to in any reference.

Also MUST clarify what tracker is measuring and get the rules specified in writing as he could end up with another disciplinary for flouting the rules which he does not know about!

Why was the tracker fitted? How can use of car be anything to do with phone bills?

Hi, I got in trouble with my company for abusing company phone. I'd been told previously I could use it for personal use, as long as I didn't go mad, but unintentionally (ie wasn't keeping tabs on how much I was using it!) I ran up a big bill. We resolved it by my agreeing to pay for the minutes I'd used. I thought this was fair, and hopefully your dh and his company will be able to resolve things amicably. All the best!

He should keep his head down and his gob shut and look for another job, and you should take a long hard look at the person you married.