Can you be sacked for drink driving?

[zoggs]

My brother has been arrested for this with a "very high" reading. Turns out he is an alcoholic, drinking from morning to night every day including at work. He has a senior management position in a county council. I suspect the reading may be high enough for a custodial sentence to be considered but if he doesn't get sent to prison do you think he could lose his job?

I suspect that his job may be at risk.
Most large organisations would have a policy in place for supporting an alcoholic in stopping drinking. Equally, they also have policies about bringing the organisation in to disrepute.

From your post, it seems that it wasn't a simple matter of being caught out one evening having had a pint too many. Not only has he been caught by the police very very intoxicated, but you imply that he has regularly been drinking at work too.

I'd suggest that he speaks to his manager/HR department sooner rather than later - they may be more supportive if he goes to them instead of waiting for it to be reported in the local papers (they really hate it when their organisation name is linked to someone being found guilty of something).

I only have experience from working in a large financial company - but they didn't have any leeway in dealing with people who had been convicted of any crime.

Yes his job is at risk. He needs to check his disciplinary policy as soon as possible, and as a county council they are very likely to also have a policy dealing with drugs and alcohol setting out their approach.

Lots of organisations are very supportive of people with substance abuse problems now and may have something set out in terms of support they offer for dealing with it, however if he's been drinking at work and is convicted of driving while drunk, that may be too much of a problem.

In his disciplinary policy there will be a list of examples of gross misconduct, for which he could lose his job straightaway. This list will be non-exhaustive, and obviously most of these will be to do with behaviour at work, but he will be able to see on it whether there is anything about 'bringing the organisation into disrepute' with external behaviour as well - more likely to apply to very senior positions obviously.

Even if that isn't an issue, the drinking at work is likely to be.

I agree that he should communicate with his line manager and HR as soon as possible to keep them fully informed of developments.

In my job yes - 2 reasons, both of which may apply to your brother:

1 - I need to drive to do my job.

2 - Drinking during the working day is a sackable. If you have a swift half at lunch time, you are meant to book the afternoon off. I imagine that an even harder line will be taken if the drinking actually takes place during work hours. I believe that this is true across the public sector (as a tax payer I hope so!).

However, one of my reports did have a serious drinking problem. As a valued and longstanding member of staff, blind eyes were turned as long as he kept up his work. When the drinking did begin to interfere with his work, we arranged counselling, AA meetings, occupational health and medicals for him. When he had a heart attack, we kept in touch with him and his family and doctors and were arranging a gradual return to work. Unfortunately he died before he returned.

It may well be that, as a large public sector body, your brother's employers may choose to help him too.

Good luck

Thank you for replying.

Brother is presently on sick leave as he is on a detox programme. His intention is to go back to work completely sober and never drink again. He was never actually caught drinking at work so that part is retrospective. Assuming he chooses to tell his employers that he was drinking at work (which I don't think he will) I presume he can't be disciplined for that now?

He doesn't need to drive at work - he can send other people out if necessary. Bringing the organisation into disrepute is obviously more likely to cause a problem especially if his reading is high enough to warrant a mention in the papers.

It remains to be seen whether he can actually stop drinking. I don't know if I have any sympathy for him. He's been a rotten son and a useless brother but I am his only close relative so I can't turn my back on him.

The poor guy obviously needs help. He should go to AA and maybe you could contact Alanon?

Zoggs, I'm glad he has your support - he will need it and I'm sure there are going to be difficult times ahead.

Good on you for being there.

hf128219 - he has already been to AA and dismissed them as "useless" and I'm afraid he is far from being a poor guy. He has spent most of his life wallowing in self pity, never lifts a finger to help anyone else and thought it was ok to help himself to my children's inheritance despite the fact that he has a very well paid job. He thinks he's going to take a few pills to get over his addiction and carry on where he left off.

It's not looking too good really BUT he is still my brother and I'm doing this for my late parents. To be honest, if he gets a custodial sentence I won't be losing any sleep (he could have killed someone) but I won't turn my back on him. Sorry if that sounds hard.

zoggs - you are allowed to sound hard. That's what the addict needs sometimes. I don't normally talk about real life on here - but here goes.

I have a close relative who spent 2 years living underneath Charing X station, really in the gutter - children taken into care etc.

Now 20 years sober with AA.

hf128219 - thank you and I'm so glad your relative is ok now. I have had several family members with drink problems including an uncle who slept rough in Edinburgh for around 5 years and a cousin who died from liver failure last year.

I've got to believe there is hope for my brother but I can't do it for him and he has never done anything for himself before so I know this might come back to me.

If my parents weren't already dead the shock of all this would have killed them. I'll do what I can for my brother but my support is going to be limited - I couldn't have him to stay for instance.

All I can say is good luck - and do your best.

It's an evil illness. Just try and steer him the right way.

zoggs I'm afraid just because an employer didn't find out about serious misconduct at the time it happened doesn't mean that when they do find out they can't discipline him for it. If they knew at the time and did nothing, it wouldn't be reasonable to then suddenly dismiss him/give him a warning for it, but if something serious comes to light (which presumably wasn't that long ago anyway) a while after the event, it doesn't necessarily follow that they can't discipline him once they have found out.

flowerybeanbag - that's very interesting, thank you. I suppose time will tell. He was drinking at work right up until about 10 days ago and is now off sick. If he loses his job he only has himself to blame. I'm just trying to work out the possible fallout from all of this.

I can't imagine trying to dry out, waiting for a conviction which might end up with a custodial sentence and wondering whether he still has a job will aid his recovery.

I don't want to say exactly what his job is but part of it involves auditing systems to ensure vulnerable people are not put at risk - fairly important that he is sober to do that.

10 days ago is very recent anyway. It sounds as though he is in a very responsible position at work and even if he doesn't 'own' up to having been drinking on the job, tbh I expect the possibility that he may have been doing so will be something his employer will be wanting to look into anyway. It would be surprising if no one he works closely with had any suspicions anyway I'd imagine.

Quick update:

Turns out my brother had already driven 250 miles on M62, M6 and M5 when he was stopped and found to be nearly 4 times over the limit. He went to court, pleaded guilty (no choice obviously) and was told by his solicitor to expect a 2-3 year ban, community service and a big fine. What did he get? A 2 year ban and no fine, nothing else. What a joke.

He tells me his employers have been very understanding so no problem with his job. In fact, he is better off as it is cheaper and quicker for him to commute by train. Well, bully for him.

Thank God he is off the road.