Bracing it with the boss

[lisalisa]

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We don't have attachments in our company but I have worked at companies in the past who have and we have always offered the acting person the same salary and benefits as per the grade.

Yes you can ask if you are being remunerated in accordance with the grade. They should be happy to provide you with the full remuneration details for that grade. Remuneration in my terms encompasses everything and not just base salary.

You can also ask if you are being paid in accordance with others in the same role. They won't show you specifics but should be able to tell you exactly where you sit within that pool. Therefore, if there are 10 (hypothetically speaking) all doing the same job and you will be taking one of their roles for 12 months you can ask where you sit within this pool in terms of salary and benefits. Never forget benefits. If they tell you that you are number 10, ie the lowest ask them why that is and push further. Naturally they will tell you it is because you haven't done the role before and lack the experience which is obviously justified. Your come back could always be that you will accept this for a 3 month period and would like a review at the end of this period. If it shows you are performing within this role to the level set out when you commmenced then you want an increase to whatever level it is you decide you are worth. There is no reason why they can't do this other than the standard response of "we only review salaries etc on an annual basis" or whatever other reason they want to throw at you. I'm obviously generalising here but I can't write everything down.

The role does sound fantastic for you in terms of personal growth and one thing you do need to weigh up is will it be worth the small increase in terms of your future and what you will be worth or is it not.

I would be very concerned about the effect this is going to have on your private life and can not believe that for worse shifts you are only getting £1500 per annum.

Meanmum> That's fab. Thanks for the comebacks. I think these ideas will be really useful. I may also remind them that one of the major reasons for applying for the job was because I have found myself with unexpected financial burdens, due to having to take my mortgage over on my own. I might say that if I were to accept the salary they are offering I would have to continue searching for something with a better salary. Is that reasonable?

Fingers crossed.

I'm definitely going to take the position whatever happens.

Bobbins - it is reasonable to say you need to keep searching for a role with a better financial aspect than the one they are offering but I personally wouldn't use it. You need to be non threatening yet at the same time assertive. Hard to be sometimes.

That sort of comment can be construed as a challenge and I think most people feel that if someone wants to say that then let them look for a new job. It tends to make me and most of the HR people I know dig their heels in and not compromise at all. Therefore, use it as your last resource and if you say it ensure that you will actually do it. Some people will call your bluff.

I see no reason why you don't explain the financial hardships you are under as HR people are compassionate (most are anyway) and this will give them a better understanding of why you are asking for more money or hesitant to take the role on.

I am still surprised that this is all they are offering. Surprised enough to make the assumption that there is more money available to you but only if you ask. I don't know the job you do or the industry you are in and this is obviously a major factor in the remuneration you are receiving now and what they are offering you.

Meanmum> Good point. I don't want to appear threatening at all.

It's a multimedia job within the BBC. There are some editorial/journalistic aspects of the job. The BBC really doesn't pay well, but generally it is an excellent place to work.

Really great advice. It's good to speak to someone with so much experience in HR. I think its such a great benefit to see how things really work within HR. Since I have been involved in recruitment in my current position I have learnt so much about the processes they go through with shortlisting applications, and interviewing. I think that is really why I now get shortlisted; an inside knowledge of the processes.

Meanmum> Talking basics here. Should I suggest a figure or wait for them to. If its me, do I ask for more than I expect to get and how should I ask?

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Lisalisa - I'm pleased you spoke with your boss. The hard part is over now. Approach HR and have a face to face conversation with them. I don't know what your HR manager is like but approach them as a person rather than an employee. I bet you'll get what you want. Let me know.

Bobbins - definitely suggest a higher amnount than you actually want. It's all a negotating game. They will knock you down no matter how much you ask for so if you ask for more they'll probably end up giving you pretty close to what you want and they will think they have done a good job by not giving you what you initially asked for. Therefore, everyone walks away thinking they have got the better deal and everyone is happy.

I love these sorts of discussions so please keep me posted on how things go.

Lisalisa and Bobbins - let us know how you get on.

Hi, I'm new to mumsnet but find the advice given out on this thread to be fantastic. I have a couple of questions which I am hoping you can help with. I'm 30 wks preg and taking annual leave prior to maternity leave therefore finishing in 3 weeks time.

Firstly, my interim replacement is hired on a short term contract and I know she asked for around 20% higher salary than me. I am aware that short term contracts get higher salaries due to the lack of security/pension etc, but it galls me that she is less experienced than me. I intend making the point/using it as a negotiating stance when I return to work in January. Any views?

Secondly, I am keeping my company car over my leave, but my line manager was of the view that i would be handing my mobile and laptop in whilst on leave. I was hoping to keep both as benefits and also to keep in touch with sales performance whilst I am away. Again, any advice on whether mobile and laptop count as benefits in the same way as the company car?

Finally, HR have advised that our maternity package is likely to be revised (it's just above the stat at the moment) whilst I am off. What rights have i to have my benefits back dated?

I would hope that my company would be receptive to my views on these points (once you have helped me form them!) as we are a new emerging company and I hold a fairly senior position. Problem is though that being a small company its hard to discuss things with HR 'in confidence'.

Any advice or views would be welcomed.

As far as I am aware, you should be able to keep your lap top and mobile phone while you are "normal" maternity leave - but someone like Sis is probably the most qualified to give you advice.

Are you allowed to make private calls on you mobile (in my company, we are allowed to as long as we only use it a "reasonable" amount)? If so, it is a perk of your job and as such you retain it as part of your normal package while you are off.

The lap top might be more debatable. But you say you want to use it because you want to keep in touch with work - and I am sure there is an obligation on your "management" to give you the facilities to do so - so the lap top would be the "obvious" means of doing so. Although your manager might argue that a weekly call would be sufficient - which is not necessarily what you would want!

The Maternity Alliance web site might be able to give you more guidance.

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Good luck lisalisa.

Sorry, just found this thread again by searching. Must have missed it because I was actually doing some work today (as opposed to surfing the web like normal).

Lisalisa - as corny as this sounds my present will be the fact that you get more than the minimum. I'm pleased we all helped you have the courage and confidence to ask for what is reasonable and you are entitled to and I can't wait to hear how you go tomorrow. However, I've got my eye on some nice diamond earings if you're rich enough!!!

Rosie63 - I'll respond to you tomorrow if that is OK as it's late and I can't get my head around your issues at the moment. My fault not yours as splitting headache at the moment and can't get my head around anything.

good luck lisalisa, remember the most important thing is to sound confident and talk as if you ARE going to get the same package (would appreciate a better package but would be understanding if the company is not able to be more generous etc!). In a very nice, friendly way, put them on the back foot where they have to explain why they cannot give you what you want/expect rather than you explain why you need it.

Hope that makes sense!

Rosie63, as JanZ has already mentioned, if you are allowed to use the phone,laptop etc for personal benefit then you are entitled to keep it during the ordinary maternity leave. There is no entitlement to retain these benefits during the additional maternity leave, but you can negotiate with your employer.

Any changes to company maternity rights do not have to apply to you if the company implements for employees who start maternity leave after the date when you start your maternity leave.

If anyone wants to talk about the law in more detail then feel free to send me a phone number via mumsnet and we can talk through the particulars of the situation. BTW, I am not a lawyer and am not touting for business - just offering assistance if needed

Lisalisa - wishing you all the best at your meeting today. Just remember, if they don't offer you what you want you don't have to accept it. Be reasonable in your requests but always feel confident enough to ask for time to review their offer before accepting or declining. Don't rush into agreeing or disagreeing with them take on board what they say and in fact my suggestion would be to be non committal at the meeting and then at the end wrap it up by saying you appreciate what they have said and would like some time to think about it and get back to them.

Rose63 - you are entitled to retain all of your benefits whilst on annual leave and also ordinary maternity leave (first part of mat leave). I'm a bit surprised that they want to take your laptop away from you as generally most companies want to ensure that their staff stay in contact and one of the easy ways of doing this is to let them retain their laptop and dial up access. Let them know if they don't want you to have it that it is to their benefit as otherwise you would want to receive regular communications (about all the things you want to know about) which may be time consuming for them. I'm struggling to understand why your boss would want you to give back your mobile and laptop as it is to his benefit but maybe he just doesn't understand. Let him know though that you have a right to retain these. No need to go into detail about the fact it is only during the ordinary maternity leave section. Make him speak to HR and find this info out. They should be communicating this to him anyway.

I don't know if there is much you can do about the 20% extra your cover is receiving but yes you should ask for more upon your return. There is no harm in doing this and they can only say no.

It depends when they backdate the policy to. If they are saying they are reviewing it due to the new laws that have come into effect then it must be backdated to 1 April 2003 and you are entitled to this. Even if they haven't updated their policy you are still entitled to the new rights but my advice would be to wait and see what else they add as you said it was slightly over the statutory and you could probably get that too. I would think once they have re-written it they will backdate what is appropriate and you will get it but they do have the right if it isn't statutory not to backdate it. You will only be entitled to the changes from when they state the policy is effective and for some reason I assume they will review it and backdate the effective date to 1 April as (once again) I assume this is what they are actually updating. Does that make sense. Probably not.

Hope it helps and ask more if you need to know more.

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Great news, Lisalisa

Fantastic news. I am so happy for you. I know this has lifted your spirits and I hope it lifts dh's too. I'll send my email address no problem.

This is a victory for others too you know. It shows what you can do if you just ask, have sensible justification and believe in yourself. Trust me I am a mean mum and the name is very applicable.

Well done LisaLisa, that's great news. Hopefully one good piece of news leads to others and your relationship with dh improves soon, this will at least remove some of the financial worry that you had.

well done lisalisa!

Great news, lisalisa, and echoing others' thoughts that this might help a bit with the dh situation. Well done you.

Lisalisa this is great news and I'm glad you've proved you can negotiate for yourself as well as your clients, well done!

Congrats LisaLisa - a happy result!

Thanks to everyone for their comments on my questions (sorry LisaLisa for hyjaking your thread). According to HR and the Maternity Alliance I have a strong case for the mobile however not so strong for the laptop. I am going to discuss it with my boss tomorrow and lay it on thick. As i work for an online retailer, other methods of keeping me informed whilst i am off will not really be sufficient - how can I keep up to speed with what they are doing on the website unless I have internet access through my laptop? I'm really encouraged by your advice and am going to follow LisaLisa's example and stick up for myself! Hope you all had a good weekend, R

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Lisalisa - you are putting me to shame. Yes I received it and they are beautiful. I have been meaning to thank you since first thing this morning and have been lax in not.

You made my day and I have now told everyone how my internet friend sent me flowers. Yes, make of that what you will as they all did.

They really were beautiful and they are brightening up my flat as we speak. I don't know how to thank you enough for your kindness as it wasn't expected or needed and I know you know that but still just want to say thank you. You are a very special person with an extremely kind heart. Good luck with the pregnancy and your maternity leave and everything else.