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Been approached about running a sports centre creche........not clue how to

74 replies

KatyMac · 05/06/2009 22:30

I've been brainstorming thinking very hard about it & the meeting is on Tuesday.

So there are several options & I need to choose the most cost effective/practical ones to produce some sort of proposal

Creche at the centre
Pros - most use for parents, additional space for children, fixed costs covered
Cons - not ideal, no access to outside space, additional staffing needs

Could be done by us or we could consult on provision by sports centre

Creche at the setting
Pros - easier to man (esp if numbers are low), total control, setting is more child friendly
Cons - not ideal for parents (about 1/2 mile away). limited numbers

I need to make it work for the sports centre chap & for me - I'm not sure if there should be some 'gain' for both of us due to working together

Can anyone comment or throw ideas/problems/issues my way

OP posts:
southeastastra · 06/06/2009 21:00

i work in a sports centre one hour a week. it's like the brittas empire

sorry not very helpful

KatyMac · 06/06/2009 21:08

Nope they aren't prepared to fund it at all - just to provide me with premises

NannyNick reckons I could run it for up to 4 hrs a day under the new regs

But I still think employing people would be a a problem tbh I mean in order to maintain my reputation I need to ensure that they work to a high standard & if you pay peanuts you get monkeys

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CarGirl · 06/06/2009 21:13

I guess offer it one day per week and they have to pre book and see how it goes.

KatyMac · 06/06/2009 21:21

OK so I need 2 members of staff for 2.5 hours a week - It's going to cost me £50 a session (paying £200 up front for my insurance)

How many weeks should I run it at a loss?

How much should I charge?

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southeastastra · 06/06/2009 21:21

katy alot of the creche staff at our local centre are mothers of under 5s.

it is worth looking into

CarGirl · 06/06/2009 21:22

One experienced member of staff, one newbie?

KatyMac · 06/06/2009 21:26

I still have to find them...........I mean I can't find a 26 hr a week person

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southeastastra · 06/06/2009 21:29

i do 20 hours a week i'd love 25

KatyMac · 06/06/2009 21:41

Can you move closer?

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southeastastra · 06/06/2009 22:25

we would do well together

southeastastra · 06/06/2009 22:25

we would do well together

KatyMac · 06/06/2009 22:27

Do you think?

I wonder if I am too intense in interviews & put people off

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KatyMac · 08/06/2009 11:11

Last bump for any extra thoughts

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KatyMac · 08/06/2009 14:21

Proposal Document:

Legislation

As far as I can tell, a crèche would be exempt from registration with OFSTED.

Exemption From Registration Order 2008

Exempt temporary provision

5.?(1) The circumstances referred to in articles 2(2) and 2(4) are where the provision is made?
(a) for a particular child?
(i) for two hours or less per day, or
(ii) for four hours or less per day and the provision is offered?
(aa) on a day to day basis with no longer term commitment to clients, and
(bb) for the convenience of clients who intend to remain on the premises where the provision is made or within their immediate locality;

It would, however, need to meet
? Safeguarding children guidance
? Food Hygiene regulations
? Health and Safety at Work regulations

Safeguarding Children

Due to regulations and best practise surrounding safeguarding children you would need a minimum of 2 staff on the premises at all times. Allowances need to be made for comfort breaks for the staff.

Staffing

? Ratios
1 Adult to 3 children under 2
1 adult to 4 children aged 2-3
1 adult to 8 children aged 3-8

Generally, when mixed ages are present the ratio reverts to the youngest child present. So if there is a 6 month old, 5 x 2 year olds and a 5 year old then that requires 2 adults.

? Costings
Staffing costs are complicated to calculate. Although minimum wage is £5.80 an hour, I would question the possibility of recruiting for a 2.5 hr session.

In addition NI costs at 11% plus 28 days holiday means for each 2 hour session a staffing cost of around £35 with the crèche running for 48 weeks of the assuming the staff can be persuaded to take their holiday at the same time.

? Training
The staff would need to attend a child protection course and a 12 hour paediatric first aid course and these would need to be renewed 3 yearly, at a cost of approximately £120 per staff member.

Resources

To set up a crèche, you should expect to spend between £200 and £300. There needs to be a range of toys and activities plus some safety and nursery equipment.

Insurance

This can be obtained from Morton Michel or the Daycare Trust. The cost is approximately £180-£200 per year.

Conclusion

Unfortunately I don?t think that WC would be prepared to fund running the nursery. A basic crèche has an opportunity cost of approximately £50 a session, with further sessions in the same week costing £35.

This would mean the charges for the crèche would be at around the £8.50 per session for the first session and £6 per session for further sessions in the same week; assuming that all 6 spaces could be filled.

If you were to fund the cost of the crèche, I would be prepared to manage & staff the site.

Currently I offer Ad-hoc or Occasional childminding at the following rates:
£10 registration fee then £4 per hour (with an additional charge of £1 if the child attend across mealtimes)

I may be able to offer reduced rates for people attending the Sports Centre:
£7.50 registration fee then £3.75 per hour (with an additional charge of £1 if the child attend across mealtimes)

OP posts:
KatyMac · 08/06/2009 17:38

Do you think I need to put something in about premises?

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meakin · 08/06/2009 21:10

Are the staffing ratios not relaxed when the parents are still in the building? Our council run gym has 2 sessions a week with a free gym. There is no limit to the number of kids allowed and no booking required. If it gets too hectic the staff from the centre help. When we were next door to the school even the older pupils would help out! But we live in a small town where everyone knows each other and are prepared to bend the rules a bit.

KatyMac · 08/06/2009 21:25

Really

Goodness - More research necessary then

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LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune · 08/06/2009 21:31

hmm my council creche maintains a strict ratio at all times and tbh I wouldn't be happy leaving a baby or young child somewhere the ratio wasn't adhered to. It is also ofsted registered, but that maybe because it is open 9:30-3pm everyday.

You need to sell it to the gym (well you don't because they need you) that they will get more money by subsidising a creche because more female members will use it/sign up.

If you do run it for a very limited time per day make sure it's when classes are running as they are very popular with female gym goers that tends to be when our creche is full.

KatyMac · 08/06/2009 21:35

LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune - I can't afford to run it

The costings are prohibitive - would you pay £8.50 for a creche?

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LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune · 08/06/2009 21:47

I know you can't afford to run it which is why you need to turn round the the gym and say it makes business sense for them to subsidise you to run it. Didn't mean for you to lose money and no I wouldn't pay £8.50 but I know how much my gym having a creche has been a life line for me.

KatyMac · 08/06/2009 21:50

But if they charge £10 for a tennis lesson
£5 goes to the tutor leaving £5 between me & the centre

Not much there for a subsidy - what do you pay for an hour?

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LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune · 09/06/2009 06:23

Erm I think it's about £2.60.

You're right there is not much left over for a subsidy but that's the gyms problem not yours, either they can afford to pay you what you are worth or they can't!

JackBauer · 09/06/2009 06:33

I use a creche at the local swimming pool, it is veyr basic, they keep al the toys in a store room and bring it out for 3 hours in the morning. tables/chairs/baby area and drawing etc. They have a room full of toys but it would no way be ideal for more than an hour or so so I don't mind.
There is a small courtyard outside the meeting room they use and that has sandpit and slide in with a car and trike so there is room to run outside though. Is there a room with a small outside area at all?
It costs me £1.50 an hour!

ipodtherforipoor · 09/06/2009 07:24

my gym do a session 9-12, and then 4-7.

The first session covers te morning classes that SAHMs and those on MAT leve go to. Te afternoon catches the working mums who pick up from school. It helps that my gym are running classes at that time which attracs the working mums to use the creche.

I have actually changed to a more expensive gym because of ths service so the gym manager may be interested in that!

I pick G up at 4, get him in creche for 445, and class 5-6, pick up at 615. As a single and working mum its the only way I can get some exercise!
cost - £4 peer hour, half price for afternoon session.

KatyMac · 09/06/2009 07:42

My worry is how long would I have to run at a loss before it became viable?

I lost a lot of money on a failed business venture 2 years ago & last year we nearly went bust

I don't think I can emotionally commit to it - at least not when I offer the service 1/2 mile away - I would be competing with myself in a perverse way

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