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Moral Dilemma

15 replies

Justintime · 14/04/2003 14:37

I have changed my name for this message, although I think a lot of Mumsnetter will guess who I am......

About 5 months ago I put my ds's name down for a summer playscheme. It was just before she started school, and I thought it was a great way for her to spend a few weeks of the summer holidays, whilst also solving the problem of childcare. It is for 3 weeks in total. The rest of the time either dp and I are sharing it, or our childminder is helping out.

Well, when dd started school it was a really big change for her, although she had been going to nursery for several years beforehand. It was quite a shaky start for various reasons. For around six weeks she was very upset at being left at school, although she did apparantly calm down quickly once I had left her. Then she made best friends with another little girl in her class, I'll call her Nicky, they became inseperable, and this means that she loves going to school now. The teacher has also told me what a great team she and Nicky make not just during playtime, but during classroom time too. They work well together and support each other.

During this time, I started to realise that me leaving dd at a playscheme where she does not know anyone is simply out of the question. I really know that she would be miserable there. She is quite unsure about new social situations, and would hate to go anywhere like this on her own. This has always been the case really, for instance I have never been able to leave her at parties, on playdates etc, but I suppose I was being optimistic when I booked the playscheme, and it was before she started school so I had not seen for a while how she feels about doing new things. Anyway, I happened to mention this to Nicky's mum and she immediately came up with the idea that the girls go together to the playscheme. This is such a fantastic idea, I know my dd would have a great time because she would already have a friend and that would help her confidence no end. Also, sharing the dropping off and collecting would obviously be very useful to me.

So far, so good.....but at the weekend I got a call from Nicky's mum. As Nicky will be just under 5 and dd is just over 5, they will be put in different playgroups and not allowed to do anything together. Not even eat lunch. I am really disappointed, but I also feel that it is a ridiculous rule - of course there has to be age differentiation, but to seperate two girls who are in the same class at school just seems ridiculous to me. I have today phoned and checked the situation and that is the case. There is no room for negotiation at all.

Now, this is where the dilemma comes in. I could (I think) just say stupid rules, won't bother with them, phone up and tell the playscheme that I have just been checking through the documentation they have given me, and I have found that they have got dd's date of birth wrong. That solves the problem of dd and Nicky being together. And as the playscheme is run by the local authority, and there are no other ones available, I don't have the option of using another playscheme that has different rules. Or I could phone up, cancel and get most of the money refunded and be in a real dilemma about what to do over the summer holidays.

A big part of me feels that lying for whatever reason is wrong. When I have heard about people lying about religion, where they live etc in order to get a school place I have always been secretly mortified and really what I would be doing is no different in many ways. And of course, there is always the possibility that I would get found out, how ashamed would I feel then?! But then there is another part of me that really thinks this bureaucracy gone mad, and that it wouldn't harm anyone at all........

So, what would other people do in my situation? Am I being a Bad Mother in thinking about lying? Should I just resign myself to the fact that the rules are the rules and this time next year it won't be a problem?

OP posts:
kaz33 · 14/04/2003 14:48

I think I would lie about her age - we all tell white lies, its not a lie that would hurt anyone. That is the judgement I always try to make when faced with such dilemmas.

PandaBear · 14/04/2003 14:48

Are you a bad mother??? No, definitely not, you are trying to ensure that your DD is happy whilst not in your company. I would say that makes you a good mother.

My opinion is, what difference does a little white lie make. If it means your DD will be happy and confident, and you are happier to leave her in a new situation then I would say you are justified in your actions!!

Good luck whatever you decide.

Slinky · 14/04/2003 15:01

You're not a bad mother for lying - just wanting whats best for your DD.

However, as annoying as it is, the reason these playschemes have so many rules boils down to their insurance policies. I have been tempted on many occasions (here and abroad) to lie about DSs age so he and DD1 could go to "clubs" together.

Also, the reason the "cut-off" point is at 5 is down to the child:staff ratio - under 5s is 1:8, over 5s is higher.

tamum · 14/04/2003 15:22

If I've understood correctly, it sounds to me as though the only real problem with lying (much as I would be tempted) will be the possibility that someone will ask your daughter how old she is. If I've got this right, she will have to pretend to be four? It might not arise, but I would be feel very uncomfortable with having to tell my DD that she had to tell people she was four if anyone asked. However, if she'd be fine with it I would definitely go for it, and I certainly don't mean to sound judgmental.
If all else failed, could you and Nicky's mum share the childcare a bit over the summer? It's such a dilemma, I know. I wasn't able to entertain the possibility of anything like this for my son until he was 6 or 7. Good luck with whatever you decide.

layla · 14/04/2003 16:28

I don't see anything wrong with lying but will you get away with it if you've already asked if she can go in the other class?Won't they be a bit suspicious?

SoupDragon · 14/04/2003 16:41

I thought the same as Tamum - would your DD be able to lie consistently if asked her age? Never mind the moral aspects of asking your DD to lie (and I agree it's a little white lie and I'd be tempted to do the same), she may not be able to remember that she's "only 4, honest!"

BigBird · 14/04/2003 17:05

how big is the playscheme? Could you send her anyway and just walking in with Nicky and seeing her across the playground etc might make her feel more secure. And they could meet up at the end of every day. And you could tell your dd's leader that she knows Nicky so any MAJOR traumas may be averted by allowing them 5 mins together. Just knowing the fact each other is there and going through the same thing would boost confidence. Plus the whole experience might be good for your dd in overcoming shyness like this. Have a chat to her about it saying 'nicky is going too but because she is 4 and you are 5 you have to go to different classes, but nicky will be ok about it so I want you to be a big strong girl too etc etc and we all can go get pizza after with nicky' or something along those lines.

Failing that can you find the name of someone local who also might be attending and introduce her to your dd beforehand.

I'd be afraid of lying incase I got found out but I don't think i'd cancel.

hope this is of some help.

judetheobscure · 14/04/2003 17:13

Is there any reason why dd could not go in with the younger age-group (if the separation is due to indurance reasons and staffing ratios). Maybe you would have to pay more for the younger age group?

judetheobscure · 14/04/2003 17:13

or even "insurance" reasons

jac34 · 14/04/2003 17:41

If you did get found out, they might kick your DD out and not refund your money, or, move her to the appropriate class, where she will be unhappy, and you might have to take her out anyway.
Which ever it would leave you with the same dilemma.
I don't think I'd be able to relax all summer, in case I was found out. I am a terrible wimp though, where telling lies is concerned !!

WideWebWitch · 15/04/2003 10:00

Hi Justintime, no, you're not a bad mother for thinking about lying and ikwym about bereaucracy gone mad. On the face of it it does sound like a silly policy but I think the others are right and it's probably about ratios. I wouldn't lie either, not because of moral misgivings, but just because I doubt my 5yo would keep quiet about being 5, that's all. It just wouldn't happen! They're very proud of not being 4 at that age, or at least mine is.

I agree with whoever said what about asking them if your dd can go in with the younger ones? I would offer to pay more maybe and I'd be very grovelly on the phone in the hope that someone will bend the rules. Otherwise I'd look around for something else they can do together over the holidays. The whole thing does sound very irritating I agree. BTW I have lied about ds's age to get him into a shopping centre creche for 2 hours with a friend's dd (she was 3 before him and they had to be over 3).

Ps, I'm here lots and I have no idea who you are, go on, admit it please!

Justintime · 16/04/2003 10:32

Oh, blast, blast, blast !

I have decided against the lying reading the messages here. To be honest I always felt very uncomfortable about it, otherwise I would have just done it. I guess what I really wanted was for everyone to say that of course it was fine, no problems whatsoever and what I got instead was the dreaded truth.

FWIW I was never going to ask my dd to lie (I do have some morals ). And thanks for the suggestion about asking to pay more etc to keep dd in the younger class, but that has already been tried and denied. So I guess the only thing is to cancel the playscheme .

WWW - can't possibly give my real identity away, as am totally paranoid about this sort of thing! However, I promise that if we ever meet in real life, I will tell you!

OP posts:
sis · 16/04/2003 13:37

Just to tease you WWW, I think I know who Justintime is

Justintime · 17/04/2003 09:33

A quick update for those of you who are interested, which although I am most pleased about, confirms my belief that these rules are ridiculous.

I phoned up the playscheme yesterday to cancel, and was asked why and explained the situation. The wonderful woman at the end of the phone then said "Oh, isn't it a shame that that your friend won't let her little girl go in the higher age group?". Sorry???! Anyway what no-one told us during two previous long phonecalls is that although my dd can not under any circumstances darken the doors of the 3 - 5 age group club, my friend simply has to specifically ask for her dd to go in the higher age group. Which she has done!

So all is well that ends well, I suppose. But must admit feel that there must have been a simpler way of getting there. Now all I need is for dd and her best friend to have a spectacular arguement before the start of the holidays

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 17/04/2003 10:26

Blimey justintime, you'd have thought they'd have let you know that a bit earlier wouldn't you? Still, all's well that ends well but you're right, of course now they'll argue and cease being best friends before the holidays

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