Help! What to do...employers still can't make up their minds...

[suchawuss]

I've posted on here before about my work situation, but now several weeks down the line after having put in a request to return to work part time, I am still unsure of my work situation.

I have followed the standard procedures as closely as possible to date due to the fact that my employers did not seem to have a clue about how to handle me coming back to work following maternity leave (they assumed I was not returning).

Eventually, after several ignorant, misinformed emails and a general poor handling of the whole thing, a meeting was arranged with my boss which took place over 2 weeks ago.

We discussed the options and they provisionally offered me part time work (not exactly as I wanted, but nevertheless I was happy enough to accept it).

I was all set to receive the offer in writing when I just received this evening, 16 days after the meeting (legally they have to decide within 14 days), an email telling me they are unable to confirm it yet due to the fact that it is a "new position" and not an existing vacancy and therefore need to get senior approval.

How can this be right? All I am asking for is an amendment to my current position, it is NOT a new vacancy and I am NOT a new applicant!

Can't believe they are still carrying on like this, as this is exactly how they were referring to me previously about returning, as if I needed to "re-apply" for my position.

Does anyone know if
a) as they have taken longer than the allowed timeframe to reply (i.e. 14 days), I can take out a grievance (and also where would this get me if I did)?
and
b) is what they are saying about me working part time is a "new vacancy" has any standing?

I am livid of course because this has been going on for 3 months and has ruined my maternity leave with worry to a certain extent. Also the position we talked about me coming back to is just like my previous job but reduced hours, and is not working on anything new specifically created for me.

Sorry for the long post, but what a time to receive such news, as I can't even ring ACAS for advice or anything...so any previous experience or advice would be very appreciated.

Thanks

In answer to your questions

a) it is important they follow the procedure, so if your request is refused and they didn't, you can appeal it. If the appeal then fails, you can raise a grievance and ultimately you can take them to a tribunal. But a tribunal only has the power to force them to hear the request again according to the procedure, it can't tell them whether or not the request should be agreed.

But your request hasn't been refused has it? However they are phrasing it, getting senior approval isn't unreasonable, and if you finally get what you want once this senior manager has been consulted, the fact that they didn't follow the right procedure becomes much less important obviously.

b) Does this actually matter? You have the right to request flexible working in the role you are in, but if you are offered part time working and for their benefit they'd rather call it a new position, does it matter? You say this new job is 'just like' your old job. The fact that is isn't different work doesn't necessarily mean they have to call it the exact same job. I'm not sure why the way they classify posts in the organisation is important? If you get to do the same work with part time hours, what's the difference if they call it a new job or not? They haven't actually asked you to apply, with a form and an interview and all that. You are happy with what has been offered. They are just saying they need senior management approval. At the moment as far as I can tell you have no particular reason to think you won't get it.

If they refuse the request, you can appeal and all these procedural things and a general attitude. But wait and see first. I appreciate you are frustrated at the delay, but unless and until what you've been offered is refused, don't get all outraged just yet about technicalities that might make no difference to the end result. If the end result isn't right, you can deal with it then.

Sorry, final paragraph, you can appeal and include all these procedural things and a general attitude.

Hi Flowerybeanbag, thanks so much for your reply.

The reason I am questioning the terminology they keep using e.g. seeing if there are any "openings" or positions that I can "apply for", the position is not an "existing vacancy" etc. is that I feel that they are not taking on board that I am an existing employee (who just happens to have been on maternity leave) and am requesting an amendment to my existing job role (i.e. reduced hours), not applying for a new job.

I see what you mean that in the grand scheme of things if they confirm their offer, it doesn't matter but it seems like they are using the "new position" argument as an excuse to not give it approval as there happens to be a hiring freeze within the company at the moment - but this should not affect me as I do not fall into that category and am not being hired, as I am an existing employee with a contract that I merely wish to have amended.

I just find it very strange that they have been aware of my request since the end of January (which I formalised at the beginning of February) but only now, following their own proposal, that they are stalling things pending approval by senior management.

I feel that they have had ample time to confirm whether the position is viable or not, and don't understand why they would provisionally offer me something if they would struggle to get approval for it.

Again sorry if I'm rambling but to go back to the first point, so there is nothing I can do basically but sit and wait for their final decision, even if they have failed to take into account the 14 day rule?

The closer it gets to my return date, the more anxious I get because I can't confirm childcare arrangements either which I find very unfair on their part to as surely they must realise this.

It is extremely frustrating and unfortunately it seems in this climate I need them more than they need me so don't have any alternative (and it looks like they can see that too).

Every time they delay getting back to me I suppose it is further "ammunition" if they finally refuse my request...not that want to go down that road.

Anyway thanks again

What could you do except sit and wait? I'm not suggesting sitting and waiting indefinitely, but there is no course of action that you could take that will speed things up particularly. Have you asked a timescale by when this senior manager will make a decision? It should obviously not take long to decide whether to approve something or not. I just think given that they've only just told you they need this person's approval, thinking about grievances and the like is a bit pointless.
At least give them a few days to get this approval, and if, following chasing it, it doesn't seem any nearer, then consider next steps.

I realise they've mucked you about, and been disorganised as well by the sounds of things but the actual fact of needing approval of a senior manager and letting you know this isn't unreasonable. If the request is then declined, you can appeal, citing all their attitude problems, the failure to follow the procedure and all the other concerns you have.

But at the moment you have no reason to believe this might not get signed off by the senior manager in the next few days - at least give them a chance to do that first.

If you raise a grievance now, you won't know the extent of the grievance as you don't know the outcome of the discussion with the senior manager.

You are right - doing anything other than waiting at this stage would be fruitless.
Thanks for helping me rationalise a bit - in the heat of the moment I almost fired back at them with my true feelings on the matter (thank god I didn't) but if they approve then great, and if they reject then...surely I have a good chance of getting something out of this as IMO they have treated me very badly.

Good idea about asking for a timescale, I will do that.

So difficult to be calm about this whole thing as this is my livelihood they are messing about with and can't they appreciate that I now have a child to support and if I didn't need to go back I wouldn't be battling for heaven's sake! I know they are not a charity but I am not asking for anything unreasonable because I know the business so well.

Anyway...patience...and thank you for your insight.

Update on this, if flowerybeanbag or anyone else can help again:

I have just had my request to go back P/T rejected, 23 days after my meeting...wish it was as simple as that except that the response they have given me is not exactly definitive as they hint it may be able to be reviewed at a later date (but well after my return to work date, so therefore not leaving me any choice but to either resign or go back F/T, neither of which is desirable of course, and also well outside of timeframe all this is supposed to take). What is the point of those timeframes if they don't get respected, and there is nothing I can do about it?

They haven't given me a valid business reason to reject it either, just that they can't approve it at the moment as there is a hiring freeze within the company.

At this stage what on earth can I do now? I did actually ring ACAS and they told me to appeal it but I don't find them very helpful at all and the thing I am worried about is I only have 18 days til I go back, no childcare in place and F/T is not what I wanted to do and is freaking me out as going back to work undoubtedly means working long hours like I used to and who knows for how long it will go on...

It's a bit heat of the moment and I suppose I'm not even sure what I'm asking as I need to think about this. I don't have any choice but to go back F/T but what good would that do the company either, as they know that's not what I want therefore am unlikely to perform at my best etc...

Argh will sleep on this I suppose but any tips welcome Going out in a bit but back later.

Sorry, but a hiring freeze is a valid business reason for rejecting flexible working as they are unable to recruit staff to cover the hours you won't be working.

see here

It looks like your only option is to appeal it and see what happens.

Really? Even though the proposed position they provisionally offered me is working on something that only requires 4 hours' work a day (and is existing, just covered by several different people rather than one) so they don't need to cover me when I'm not there, and therefore don't need to recruit additional staff.
This does not match up in my mind...and also I know I keep going back to it but reducing my hours has nothing to do with a hiring freeze, surely?
Thanks for the link.
Will check this thread later.

It sounds like they haven't received senior approval for the position the intitially offered you, so it is a bit irrelevant. They should have elaborated in their letter how the business reason they have given applies to your case.

It sound slike they have totally mucked you around and haven't followed the correct procedure so I would appeal.

They are perfectly within their rights to not alow you to work part time. You have the right to request it, not the right to flexible working.

You can appeal it, and should. If you feel the business reason you have been given isn't enough, doesn't apply or isn't accurate, you should appeal that, and you should of course appeal all the many procedural problems there have been.

Obviously you don't have much time, so what you could do is either take a chunk of holiday, assuming you haven't already used up all your holiday accrued during maternity leave, or request a couple of weeks' parental leave.

If you want to do either of those things, I suggest you write to someone senior in HR confirming your request, explaining that your flexible working request has taken x weeks and does not seem likely to be resolved before you are due back to work, you therefore would like to request this leave in order to resolve the issue before you come back.

If you appeal it three things might happen. They might change their mind and allow your request. They might concede that they didn't follow the procedure and start again, this time following the procedure, or they might just refuse and ignore the fact that they didn't follow the procedure.

If they do option 3, you can bring a tribunal claim. The tribunal can force them to hear your request again using the proper procedure but it can't specifically tell them to allow it.

Thank you both.

I am going to prepare my appeal and deal with this as quickly as I can, but don't feel hopeful at all and the stress of going through it makes me quite sick.

Unfortunately I don't have any more holiday left and can't afford not to be working or taking unpaid leave (if I could, I could just extend my maternity leave to a year) so looks like I will go back F/T whilst appealing the decision.