what's your maximum page count for CV for mid-career self employed types

[hatwoman]

just updated mine and it's hard to keep the page count down. none of what's on it is irrelevant. honest. what's the most you would tolerate? in a quasi-academic / need to have published stuff / need technical expertise type environment?

two pages i would say is enough

two pages - do you really need to list everything you've ever had published? And if so, can you keep it to titles or just list one example and the journal's name? Cut down other stuff and keep in only what is strictly necessary.

2 pages. Reduce the font size?

no, don't reduce the font size! Looks awful (unless you are using 14 point, of course). Shows you know it is too long but can't be bothered or don't know how to cut it.

2? really? are you all mid-career and self employed? 2 is standard advice for a recent graduate isn;t it? I really can't see how the same can apply when you've got a few years proper experience.

agree with edam re font size. same goes for tampering with margins

I'm self-employed, half-way through my career (in terms of years) and my last job as an employee was senior management. When I recruited people, a three page CV was a handy way to weed out applicants if you had too many to go through.

(Employers do not need a whole paragraph on every job you have ever had by the time you've been working a few years, btw. Just one line giving company/title/dates will be sufficient to make the point that you don't have any gaps.)

thanks Edam. can you give me an inkling what industry, if that's not too nosey. I've actually just remembered that I have a cv I used (kind of succesfully - long story) before, for the same person. just dug it out and it was 3 pages. but i;ve done a year's worth of consultancy since then. best take another look.

but I don't want to just make the point that there are no gaps - I want to highlight why the job is relevant. one problem, imo, is that certainly in my industry job titles are completely meaningless and very unhelpful in imparting to someone what you actually did. I've never used long hand paragraphs - just 2 or 3 bullet points. (which are, a bit unfairly if you like, less words than a para but more space)

I think you need to do the explaining in a covering letter or application form - agree that two sides is enough

Not every single job you've ever done over the past decade will be SO relevant that it has to be mentioned in any detail, though. Condensing your CV into two pages is good discipline.

Collect your key skills/achievements/whatever into one par at the start and just cut the verbiage in the chronological section. And, as morningpaper says, use the covering letter to highlight why your experience and skills make you the best person for the role.

(I'm a journalist, and worked closely with tons of 'serious' social science/hard science researchers in the same organisation. As a complete side issue, 'paras' makes my teeth itch! Abbreviation for writers is 'pars'. No reason anyone else should know or care, of course...)

well, it's down to 3. but you could say part of that is an appendix. at some stage, when I have more time, I may rejig it into something less chronological, more skills based. every job I've done over the past decade is relevant enough to at least have an explanation - but I've knocked it down to a one sentence summary, rather than something that looks like a job description.

I've just realised that part of the problem is that over the last 10 years I've had 5 jobs. which sounds dreadful but isn;t because it's tied to how things are in my industry - and is quite normal. I've had 2 proper/permanent jobs over that period - both with the same employer, but have also had 2 crisis-based internal secondments, and then have had an additional external job lecturing, making 5 jobs. plus my first ever job with another employer (which is going back more than a decade and can be reduced to just being there to show no gaps). plus a year's consultancy.

I also have 3 relevant degrees - I did a masters in my 20s and another one in my 30s. which take up space. and publications.

all of which make it v. hard to put onto paper - I struggled for ages to find a way that imparted both the consistency of my permanent job and the variety of my secondments.

Got to agree that 2 pages, no matter what stage of career is the most - people can't be bothered to read anything longer. I second the idea of the summary at the beginning to highlight the full range of your experience. If you want to list all your publications, perhaps that could be a separate sheet which you include?
Covering letter also crucial to highlight the highpoints (a few paragraphs, one page only!)
The CV is only to get you an interview - it does not get you the job. I recently interviewed for a job where part of my relevant experience was 13 years ago! In my CV it was a one line title with dates. They spent 20 mins or so finding out more about it in the interview which was much better than me having a 3 or 4 page CV to go into that detail at the time.
Good Luck!

I do think there are exceptions to the 2-page rule. I know that 2 pages would be strange in academia. It's difficult to know what the norm is in my industry - because the norm is in fact never to use CVs. It's very unusual. Anyway I have sent a 3-pager to this woman in the past and it got me an interview (and, she tells me, the job, except for the fact I had told her I wouldn;t work f-t), so I'm happy to send her 3 again, but will definitely try to produce a 2-pager for future use.

Why ask for advice if you don't like the answer and then try to convince people otherwise?

Mine is three pages! Objectives, skills, five jobs in the last 10 years with bullet points of key achievements, education, professional memberships, publications, interests and references. I really couldn't squeeze it any further. In my previous field I wouldn't usually use a CV, but it is all the information that goes into a standard NHS application form (plus the publications). Given that my last job had a 10 page job description, and two pages of person spec, you need a lot of space to be help the reviewer match your skills to the excessive list of requirements (I did a fair bit of recruiting too). I do think CV style is very industry specific.

2 pags would be very odd in academia. cvs of 10 pages are not uncommon with a list of publications as an extra (if appropriate).
It really does depend on your industry. Lots of public sector jobs have massivley long application forms and they ask for cvs too.

I would check with recruitment consultants in your industry or better yet speak to a few of your old bosses/work colleagues who dealt with recruitment ands check what they consider to be OK. 3 pages may be fine.

If as you say cvs are not the norm in your industry then 3 will probably be fine too. The 2 page rule is usually because a load of lazy busy HR people or bosses can't be bothered to read them because they get so many.

I've been at IT contractor for over 11 years and then in various permanent positions before that. My CV spans 5 pages, I've never had a problem getting a role. In fact, the one I start on Monday there were 75 applicants and the bit of CV that was relevant for the role was on Page 5 (20 years ago!).

Totally depends on the job you are applying for.

I would aim for 2 pages, but most recruiters will be OK if it runs on to 3 pages (if it's relevant).

Key thing is not the page number but the content and the structure. Particularly if people are looking at lots of CVs, you need to show them in the first 10 seconds of reading, why you have the skills/attributes for the post they are filling. This hardly even gets them to the second page of your cv.

If you imagine a recruiter looking through a pile of cvs - they are going to put them in 3 categories: yes, no and possible. If they get enough cvs in the yes pile to make a longlist for filling the post they will only have a quick look through the possible pile, and only a cursory glance through the no pile. (There is some evidence that this is the case even when there is a 'rigorous' structured scoring system applied to cvs.

Typical recruiters will then have a longer look through the cvs in the yes pile (perhaps even a minute or two per cv!) to confirm their initial impression.

Are there ways in which you can condense parts of your cv to reduce space, but still retain meaning? e.g. "I have two post-graduate qualifications in marketing and engineering". or "I am a respected researcher and I am an author of numerous publications, including 3 books and 17 papers in peer reviewed journals".

As I said a the start, it totally depends on the job you are applying for. Gone are the days when you can write a single standard cv and send it out to all employers. Each cv needs to be tailored to the specific job you are applying for - highlighting certain parts of your experience, using language and terminology that matches what they are looking for etc. And yes, it does take a huge amount of time to do that. If you get an interview for a job you want it is worth it.

JodieO - if you follow my posts I have listened to and taken advice on board. not accepted it wholesale - because - obviously - I know more of the details about my situation, industry etc - details that the people kindly offering advice don;t have access to. but I haven't ignored the advice

thanks for the other morning posts - they're quite reassuring. although I did smirk, notsoclever, at the idea of 3 books and 17 journal articles...if only!

hatwoman, I could invent lots of other interesting things for your cv if that would help

Actually, that's not very different from what I actually do when I am helping people with applications. Sometime people write "I have a particular interest in (whatever...)". I then add ...and this is demonstrated by...(relevant example [which I make up, so they understand what the employer might be looking for]).

Did this last year with a law student who wanted to work in equalities and discrimination... She accidentally accepted the changes and sent off her cv with the [made up] example included. She got an interview then had to find an elderly neighbour who she could start visiting. She says it was the best thing she ever did, and the elderly neighbour is delighted.

Sorry for taking your thread off topic.

I think you CAN reduce the font size - 12 point is Waaaaaay too big anyway. 11 or 10 point is much more elegant.
I'm a freelance graphic designer, mid-career, so yes, I think my advice stands.
I think you can also list the last however-many jobs and the less relevant ones can be bunched up at the end, eg:

"1992-1998 other positions held, details available on request"

shows you have nothing to hide, but without bombarding them with your holiday jobs!

I disagree 12 point is the generally accepted size used for all official (ie NHS, Council etc) documents because of it's readability - it's also worth being very careful about fonts, some are much easier than others (ie avoid Times New Roman) as different fonts need different line spacing etc. I think it's best to stick with Arial or an equivalent (Verdana or other nice looking sans script font). Some fonts go smaller better than others though, and I have squeezed down to 11 when I have really needed (those annoying times when you have just one paragraph on the last page).

I would really avoid 10 though - a lot of senior managers (who will be reading the CV) don't have the best eyesight, and you really don't want them to struggle!