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Original poster

Adding hols on to end of mat leave :advice please

51 replies

beetlemum · 10/03/2009 12:17

I'm due back to work 1st September but have 25 days hols this year and would like to add them on the end. Work are a bit awkward, have asked my manager via email last week and waiting for her response. Any tips to get them to agree to this. I had previously suggested I have one day off a week, i.e the friday or monday but another colleague has just gone on mat leave and she is looking to take a day off in the week, so have been told it depend s what days she wants etc. (we don't do the same job: so I don't see how this matters). Have also suggested they just pay me my hols at the end of August but they have said this will be difficult/ impossible as my Mat cover is working until the end of August and they do not have the funding to pay two people for the same job at the same time (work for a charity).So if i took most of september off this would be good for me as it would be one less month of childcare to pay. Feel I can't enjoy the rest of my leave until I know when I am going back as also have to put deposit down for nursery. Argh!

OP posts:
mrsgboring · 10/03/2009 13:39

Are you sure you want to take all this leave now? What have you got saved up for the inevitable DC can't go to nursery as too sick type scenario?

Original poster
beetlemum · 10/03/2009 13:44

hi mrs g. Thanks for the reply, good point you make, my hubby also has leave, he cant carry any over to the next year.So he will take his if babe is ill.
i will be carrying over 5 days to next year which could be used this year if needs be.

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 10/03/2009 13:52

beetlemum the idea about paying you your holidays instead of you taking them is actually against the law anyway - you must be allowed to actually take them, and can't be paid in lieu unless you leave employment.

When is the end of your holiday year? If you are carrying over 5, which is obviously fine, how long have you got to take the rest of it? Your proposal of just adding it to the end of your maternity leave sounds ideal to me, and causes the least disruption for your work as well, but if they refuse, when are they proposing you take all this holiday instead? How are they being 'awkward'? Have they got an alternative suggestion for how you should take it all?

Original poster
beetlemum · 10/03/2009 14:35

Hi flowery, thanks for your reply. My leave year runs January to December. I'm allowed to carry 5 days over but must take them before end of April. With school hols etc this will not be a problem.
The other 20 days would therefore have to be taken between september and end of december. Which is quite a lot.
When I say awkward, am referring to fact that when I asked if I could have one day off a week until xmas line manager said it would have to be looked at along with my other colleagues request. Rather than mess about I would rather tag it on to the end of my leave. They have not made any suggetsion as to how I can take the leave and I never discussed the leave issue with my line manager as did not realise I had so much iyswim.
Thanks for the advice on the being paid for my hols, didn't realise that was illegal.

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 10/03/2009 15:00

Oh so they aren't actually being awkward about this suggestion, not yet anyway? I think taking it in a chunk is the best bet for everyone, and tbh if I were an employer I would prefer that as being less disruptive.

See what your manager says, but if she says no, make sure you get it sorted when the holiday will be taken - if you have 20 days to take between September and December you don't want to end up going back to work without any of it planned in and then trying to take it all at short notice - it just won't happen.

Original poster
beetlemum · 10/03/2009 17:37

I still haven't heard from line manager flowery but when I do I will be selling the idea of it being added on to the end of my leave as being less disruptive to work. Any ideas what to do if this request is turned down?

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 11/03/2009 14:56

Well they can turn it down, but the thing you need to make sure you get is all that holiday booked in regardless. Don't come away with just a 'no', make sure you get a 'this instead' answer, to make sure you don't lose the holiday.

Difficult to imagine why they'd prefer a different arrangement really, although a compromise of a couple of weeks tacked on with the rest in odd days might be better for them.

PartOfTheHumphreysGroup · 11/03/2009 15:32

It's not illegal to be paid out for your holidays - that's exactly what I'm doing when I return after mat leave - I work for a large company so I'm fairly sure they'd know if it was illegal.

flowerybeanbag · 11/03/2009 16:03

Don't count on it - being a big company doesn't mean they necessarily have better employment law knowledge. It's against the Working Time Directive - an employee must actually take a minimum of 4 weeks holiday a year and can't be paid in lieu unless leaving employment.

PartOfTheHumphreysGroup · 11/03/2009 17:57

Perhaps there is an exception for when person is returning from an extended leave, such as maternity leave. I'll eat my employee handbook if they've got something like that wrong!

flowerybeanbag · 11/03/2009 19:42

There's no exception. Obviously with people taking a year maternity leave and accruing 5 weeks holiday which may cross over a holiday year, getting them to physically take it is difficult.

Clearly the principle behind the Working Time Directive is to ensure that employees are allowed to actually take holiday, to ensure they get a break from work. For employees on maternity leave this isn't an issue, but because the WTD doesn't make any specific exceptions, the rule does technically apply to everyone. The sex discrimination legislation granting women all their holiday and the WTD restrictions on carrying over/paying in lieu obviously don't 'marry up' particularly well, and there will no doubt be case law ironing that out.

Your employer may not have 'made the leap' that this rule technically applies, or may be taking a view that this is an issue likely to be explored in the tribunals and are happy to pay in lieu on the grounds that it is highly unlikely any employee would complain about it, as they are not losing out from it. It's a technicality they are breaching by doing so, and clearly not an attempt to deny anyone their benefits.

Interesting that you have such absolute faith in your employer's ability to get everything 100% right though. It's unusual for someone to be so confident but it's also unusual for any employer to get everything 100% right all of the time. I consider my employment law knowledge to be excellent, and far exceeding that of the average HR person, but I have still had my position changed at least once due to a slightly obscure bit of employment law being beyond my knowledge and coming up at work. Similarly, as demonstrated by the number of people working for law firms who come on here with problems, even those who practice law as their business don't always get it right!

messageinabottle · 11/03/2009 19:51

I can second that. I work for a [biggish] law firm who specialise in employment law and they paid me for the holiday I had not taken. I would not be surprised if they were still doing it either!!

messageinabottle · 11/03/2009 19:52

sorry OP, hope you get things sorted, had to post cos flowery's comment made me chuckle

flowerybeanbag · 11/03/2009 19:52
Grin
Alutek · 11/03/2009 20:22

Sorry - do you mind if I hijack in the hope that you clearly knowledgeable people are still around? What's the position re bank holidays? I'm close to going back to work after maternity leave and finding it very difficult to work out whether or not my accrued holiday, which I intend to tack onto the end of my maternity leave, should include bank holidays. I'm pretty sure that my contract states that I'm entitled to 30 days' annual leave (I've been there a while so have extra days for long service) plus public holidays - I'm ashamed to say that I can't lay my hands on a copy of my contract right now, my excuse being that we moved recently! Work have told me that I will have accrued only 30 days' leave over my year of mat leave - is that right? My DC was born in May last year, in case that's relevant (I understand that there have been changes in the law that apply to women whose babies were born post october last year/). Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom!

saladodger · 11/03/2009 20:23

an employee must actually take a minimum of 4 weeks holiday a year and can't be paid in lieu unless leaving employment.

That's interesting Flowery- my OH's firm allows him to sell back his annual leave. He gets five weeks a year and can 'sell back' up to three!!

Original poster
beetlemum · 11/03/2009 23:32

Alutek, I was told that you don't accrue public hols when on maternity if that helps.
salad: I used to be able to "sell" my hols in my first job.
Flowery, have been in contact with my line manager today who is having a meeting with the chief exec tommorow and will let me know. Don't worry I will make sure I take all my hols

OP posts:
Alutek · 12/03/2009 07:09

Thanks, beetle - was just wondering whether that is always true, regardless of what your contract says. Good luck with your meeting!

flowerybeanbag · 12/03/2009 09:18

saladodger that's highly illegal. At least 4 weeks must be taken.

Alutek you are right about the recent changes. For women with babies due on or after 5 October, they get all their contractual benefits throughout the whole of maternity leave, so if you are contractually entitled to paid bank holidays as well as your 'normal' annual leave entitlement, that would include those.

For women with babies due before then, you get contractual benefits during the first 6 months and then accrue holiday at the statutory basic rate (currently 24 days a year for f/t staff, so 12 days for 6 months) during the second six months.

So any bank holidays during the first six months of your leave, you should benefit from. Does that make sense?

Original poster
beetlemum · 12/03/2009 12:42

flowery my manager has told me I don't accrue public hols when on maternity but from you last post as i understand it, I should for the first six months?
Does this mean i can add them on to the end of my leave or should they have paid me them? Sorry (confused emoticon)
My baby was born 20/10/08 if that makes a difference

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 12/03/2009 13:14

beeltemum for babies due on or after 5 October, they get all contractual benefits, including contractual holiday. So if your contract says you are entitled to paid days off for bank holidays, you should get that, either as extra days holiday to take, or they could pay you the days instead (which is probably easier).

Original poster
beetlemum · 12/03/2009 13:25

Many thanx flowery, I have a feeling that my contract doesn't exactly say that and i can't find my contract either. am going to check it.

OP posts:
Alutek · 12/03/2009 13:38

Thanks Flowery - that's really helpful.

Rachel2796 · 13/03/2009 21:14

I got paid for the holidays I earned for the whole year at the start of my maternity leave so its obviously possible...

LolaLadybird · 13/03/2009 21:55

I got paid for my holidays when I returned after a year's maternity leave with DD and I was the HR Manager (I guess the only person who was going to tell them it was illegal was my interim and he obviously didn't)!

Beetlemum - it's your right to take that holiday, so if they don't like your suggestion(s) then it is up to them to come up with an alternative solution that allows you to take the holiday before the end of the leave year - doesn't sound like they've been able to so far ...