Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Flip

Original poster

CRB checks being replaced by "vetting and barring"

21 replies

UnquietDad · 14/02/2009 14:42

Wasn't quite sure where to put this but I hope it will be relevant here.

I went on some Child Safeguarding training the other day and one of the things to come out if it was that Criminal Records Bureau checks are to be replaced by a "vetting and barring" system, in which you (or employer) will need to pay to get yourself on to an approved list for working with children.

see here

Just thought I'd flag this up as I don't think it has been as widely-publicised as it should be. It was certainly new to me.

Were people aware of it? What do you all think?

OP posts:

AtheneNoctua · 14/02/2009 15:03

Thanks for posting. Hadn't heard this.

From the website:
"Once the scheme is fully rolled out, it will be illegal to hire someone in regulated activity who is not registered, and has therefore not been checked by, the ISA."

What is a regulated activity? Does this include nannies? If so I think it's crap. Fine for English nannies. But many come from abroad and what is the point of running a background check in the UK on someone who has never before worked in the uk?

Original poster

UnquietDad · 14/02/2009 15:23

Do nannies needs CRB checks now? I'd imagine they do. So I imagine they will need this too.

A colleague of mine pointed out that the CRB check could be very useful for employers not just for child-related activity but also, for example, if you were hiring a finance officer and wanted to be sure they had not been convicted of embezzlement. I'm not sure if that will apply under this new system.

OP posts:

slayerette · 14/02/2009 15:28

I work in education and wasn't aware of it. I haven't heard others at school talking about it either. As long as my employer pays and I don't, I don't really mind what they call their lists and systems and whatnot, although I do wonder why everything needs to be constantly re-worked and re-branded.

AtheneNoctua · 14/02/2009 18:16

No, Unquietdad, they do not need them. Most English nannies will have them and most employers will want them to have them. But, if you hire from abroad even the continent there is no point in checking their record in England where they have never lived and in some cases never even set foot. So, if this is a required check, I would say it is a waste of money for parents.

OOther forms of childcare who offer their services to the public such as nurseries and childminders should obviously have these cchecks.

I have a CRB check so that I can volunteer at church and school and this is fine.

Original poster

UnquietDad · 14/02/2009 21:10

Thanks for the nanny clarification. I didn't know that. You learn something new on here every day...

OP posts:

MegGriffin · 16/02/2009 18:43

There was an article about this in Nursery World last week. Apparently it will cost £64 according to the article and will the employees responsibility to pay this. However after asking employers whether they would pay it most said they would. Apparently it comes in to effect from October for new employees and from 2010 all people working with children and vulnerable adults will have to have one. It will run alongside the CRB checks. So from October if you apply for a job, the employer will be in breach of the law if they employ you without having been checked and issue with a number. See www.isa.gov.org for more info. Kept it quiet, didn't they

AtheneNoctua · 17/02/2009 08:51

Thanks for the info Meg. Do you know how long it lasts? Is it £64 every year?

SueW · 17/02/2009 09:10

Someone mentioned this on here a while ago.

The good thing about this, AFAICS, is that you only need one. At the moment you need a CRB for each activity e.g. to work in school, to volunteer for scouts, etc.

We employ gap students at school and have to run checks in their own country.

AtheneNoctua · 17/02/2009 10:47

So why don't people just start accepting other people's CRB checks? I looked into this when our school was requiring parents to get CRB checks when the parents already had them at the church (with which the school is affiliated). I found out from the CRB people that it is up to the new organisation whether it wants to accept the CRB check from the organisation who requested it. And apparently the LEA had som political finger in the school pot whereby it was profitting from school CRB's. Outrageous in my opinion, but it was a brick wall that litle old me could not tear down.

SueW · 17/02/2009 14:08

It worked temporarily for me a while ago - I worked for a school which had a beavers and cubs group attached and I helped out at Beavers too. I potentially encountered the same children in the day as after school -as well as most of them being DD's friends! - but both organisations wanted to tick the right box . However, whcihever one it was that I started working for second, allowed me to temporarily work on my 'old' CRB.

Just as well - I've never had a CRB check come through in less than six months!

MegGriffin · 17/02/2009 17:22

The info in the article said you only pay once. It also said volunteers would not be expected to pay but would be expected to have one.

DontCallMeBaby · 17/02/2009 17:43

Athene, you can't just accept someone else's CRB check because they're not updated - which means they're of limited value even to the organisation that required them in the first place. You could be checked, then go off and acquire any number of convictions; no one need find out.

AtheneNoctua · 17/02/2009 19:56

Yes you can. It is up to you to decide whether you want to accept an existing one or go get another new one for yourself. I heard this straight from the CRB people because I was challenging why all the parents at the school had to go get CRBs when they were already checked to work with chidren at the connected church which is a stones throw away from the school.

nannynick · 17/02/2009 20:30

AtheneNoctua, I fist mentioned this back in October (see here) plus at other times since that date, on the Childminders Nannies board.

I agree with you that under the current system, an employer can decide to accept a CRB check carried out by a different Registered Body.

Employers of nannies are exempt (see below), though a nanny can choose to register. I expect that some nannies will register, as it could help them in getting a job.

Domestic employment

Domestic employers (eg parents and carers) do not have to check that their employees are ISA-registered but the new scheme will give them the opportunity to check the status of an individual (with their consent) if they wish to do so.

It will be an offence for a barred person to take part in any regulated activity in a domestic circumstance. 

~~~ End Quote ~~~
(Quote source)

I would expect that Church and School will be classed as 'regulated activity', so the new ISA rules will apply.

nannynick · 17/02/2009 20:39

The fee is set at £64 and is a One-Off fee. The fee is £28 to the ISA and £36 to the CRB.
Details here

ISA registration IS TRANSFERABLE between jobs.
Details here

DontCallMeBaby · 17/02/2009 20:54

I see; interesting. I was allowed to work with children doing paired numeracy several years ago just as CRB checks were stepped up (immediately post-Soham) despite having no CRB (huge backlog). Two reasons - one, I was with two children, in a library which was an alcove off the corridor, hardly alone with them; two, more importantly, I have a job where I would be dismissed if I acquired a conviction more serious than a speeding fine (and my employer WOULD know about it). It would be a shame if any new system wiped out that sort of flexibility.

islandofsodor · 17/02/2009 23:34

The organisation I am involved with campaigned for these changes.

As far as I am aware it will be a much better system in that as an employer we will be informed if there are any changes. Eg I could hire someone tomorrow and do a CRB check which is clear. If they then go on to commit an offence I wouldn;t know about it unless they told me or I saw it in the local papers (happened to someone I know, she did a re-check after 3 years and found a staff member had been charged with child sex offences)

cat64 · 17/02/2009 23:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

AtheneNoctua · 18/02/2009 08:23

So if I go and commit a crime (and get cought) the CRB people will notify people who requested a CRB on me? Didn't know that.

islandofsodor · 18/02/2009 09:19

Cat, even the organisation that obtained the CRB would not currently be informed if a crime was committed AFTER the CRB had come through. That's why most organisations get a new one done every 2 or 3 years.

AtheneNoctua · 18/02/2009 09:29

okay, so there is no reson not to share a CRB apart from it's age. This is a stupid a wastfule practice. SO, I'm glad if they have come up with a system where it will be shared. But, why not just keep the existing CRB and share it?

I wonder how much money the government spent completely redesigning the system.

Flip