Is this discrimination for being PG and working P/T?

[ilikeyoursleeves]

I work in the NHS and have just asked my supervisor and line manager if I can go on a training course that is 2 hours a week for 7 weeks. I returned after mat leave to work part time hours (3 days a week). When I was full time my job desciption and preofessional body allowed me to have half a day a week CPD (continued professional development for courses, training etc) therefore working P/T would allow me to do 2 hours a week. My supervisor supports my application but my line manager sent me an email today to say that going on this course will take me away from clinical work and that working P/T already would make going on a course difficult AND (and this is what pissed me off), as I am pregnant again and due to go off on mat leave in June, he is saying that 'application of these new skills would be limited'!!!!!!!!!

I emailed back to say that these new skills would always be applicable despite me going on mat leave, plus I highlighted that I am entitled to CPD. But it strikes me as discrimination- if I was full time and not pregnant there would be NO problem with me applying to go on this training.

What do you think?

Talk to your HR team. From what you've written your line manager is well out of line. If you worked for me I would deffo support 2 hr/week out of a total of 22.5, providing they weren't ludicrously inconvenient for all.

My entire team is male and two out of eight work 4 days a week to deal with family commitments, I am deeply unimpressed by this type of response to p-t workers.

You have the right not to suffer any detriment for being part-time and pregnant.

I don't know how often this course comes around, or how "new" the skills would be, but usually a course is only effective if there is a period of consolidation in which the skills become embedded into practice and not forgotten. Be honest, (and leaving aside the part-time issue) can you say that you will have enough time to do this? Would it be a more effective use of your time and effort and the NHS training budget if you did it on your return to work from maternity leave, or at least as a KIT day towards the end of your maternity leave?

Incidentally, I am also part-time and pregnant. I haven't had any training refused for this reason, but I would be incensed if I was. But worth considering the points above, I think.

I'm afraid I agree with your manager. having someone part time means you miss them when they're not in, so it's not just a question of whether it's a scaled down version of your full time CPD 'entitlement'. I also tend to agree that investment in training before mat leave (assuming you're taking 6 months+) is unlikely to be retained.

Yes you could say it is discrimination on the grounds of PT working. Also because of what was said about your PG, possible indirect sex discrimination. Speak to HR and ask them to support you in the first instance, often this type of discrimination really is unintentional and if it is pointed out to the manager he may well back down and hopefully also appologise.

If however they have no joy I suggest you speak to the Union who are likely to suggest a grievance is raised.

Hope you get the training you are entitled to

Since returning from my previous mat leave I am using skills that I learned on courses prior to going on m/l so I don't agree that I wouldn't retain it. I am dealing with patients just now who I know would benefit from this training and although I know 'snippets' of how to do it (a type of therapy) this is not an effective means of application at all therefore I feel that this course would benefit me, my patients, my service and the NHS. Training like this does not come up often either. There are 2 men I work with in the same profession (we work in a multidisciplinary team) and they have also expressed an interest in going on the course, I don't know what the response of my line manager has been to them but if they have no problems applying and I do because I am PT and pregnant, I will not be amused.

I would be very unhappy to be denied training because I'm part-time. The argument against it doesn't stack up and you are legally protected, to boot.

I said what I did about your maternity leave because I've no idea what sort of training it is, whether a period of consolidation would be beneficial or not, or whether it is something that is likely to change before your return to work. Only you know that. One compromise, as I've suggested, is to book yourself onto the course following your return, but get it agreed now.

I've already done this for a course I wish to do in 2010. I could fit it in before I go on maternity leave but it would be pointless as the skills I would learn on it would need to be used on the job, and I would forget most of it. Far better for me to do it on my return, when I can then immediately put those skills into use and build on them. But that was a decision I made, not one imposed by my manager, who would probably collapse into a puddle of risk aversion if she knew I was postponing the course due to my maternity leave. I've weighed up the benefit to me as an individual and the benefits to the organisation, and I'd say both would be better off if I did the course on my return to work for return on investment. It would be the same if I were sick, going on sabbatical, whatever.

IT is definately discrimination. check out the equalities legislation. Get the bastard!!! I am sick of the NHS being a discrimatory employer.

The way it has been handled is appalling but step back and ask yourself what you want to achieve, because you are making a rod for your own back.

Now by my calculations if we assume the course starts in, say, 3 weeks' time then you will not have completed it until the last week in April, so even if you started using it straight away then the NHS would only 'benefit' from your learning for 5 weeks before you go on maternity leave... it would make more logical sense to get agreement to go on such a course when you return.

Your boss may be treating you in a way that is upsetting, but coming down on him like a ton of bricks won't change his attitude. And even if it IS discrimination, I think you should choose the battles that you fight and I don't think this is the battle you want to make a stand on. I would simply mark it down and see if anything else happens.

The reason I say this (and I speak as someone who has made a stand on the sex discrim front and had to leave a company) is because even though the law is on your side, in this situation it is an uphill battle. Yes you should get the same pro-rated entitlements when you go part time but in the eyes of your employers they are not usually wholehearted supporters of part time working - they do it because they have to, and often even HR expect recipients to be grateful and to view it as a 'perk' - when you then demand entitlements on top you could tip the balance and be seen as 'grabbing' what you can, and this can really count against you in an employers' eyes. It is not fair but that is how it operates. The less flexible and more demanding a person is, the less willing the employer is to invest in that person, and there is a real risk in the circumstances that you describe that you are making yourself look less good in their eyes.

I am a part time mum and I completed my thesis on flexible working and I assure you I am 100% in favour of part time working but even I would hesitate to fund something that might only be used for 5 weeks. I think you should step back and try to appreciate it from the employers point of view.

FWIW if you DID complain I imagine you may well get your line manager to back down, but he will not thank you for it. Courses DO cost money, they DO mean that shifts and rotas need to be rejigged and for a 5 week benefit it just doesn't stack up. much much better to buckle down and show everyone above you how valuable a team member you are, so that you get them to start being 'blind' to your part-time/PG status. When you are gone on ML they will appreciate you more and you can build on that after you return.

And if the line mgr really IS discrimantory (and I don't think the evidence here proves it TBH) then you will find more and more things not adding up and then you will get much more evidence to be able to build up a case to complain about, and you will then be attacking it from a position of strength.

This isn't a priavte company, it's the NHS. If ILYS is a health professional, she has to do CPD in order to remain registered. If she is off for a year then she can still use the CPD when she comes back from Maternity Leave as the Health Professions Council insists on a sufficient amount of CPD per two year cycle in order to re-register as a Health professional and they can audit people's CPD and take them off the register if they haven't showen adequate professional development during that time.

So I would join Unision and/or raise the issue as a greivance as a) it is discrimination and b)It is difficult to get sacked from the NHS unlike the private sector.

I don't think anyone is arguing she shouldn't have the training, but it is a question of maximising the effectiveness of the training. Your argument rather sounds like CPD for the sake of ticking the box for registration. I've suggested getting agreement to carry out the training towards the end of her maternity leave (using KIT days) or soon after she returns from work. Same CPD points, but the timing ensures that she gets the opportunity to consolidate the training.

I would not encourage anyone to enter into a grievance lightly. We don't know if her training has been refused point blank or whether it would be agreed at a later date, and that is something I'd definitely advise trying first.

Can you ask your line manager to fund the course, but you will do it in your own time?

I work in the NHS in a clinical role. I work part time, so I know where you are coming from. As much as there are employment laws, IWL etc, sometimes they just do not work.