Time off to look after poorly little one?

[TinaFay]

Hi, I'm sure many of you have been in this position, but would be grateful for some advice as I'm feeling quite concerned. I started a new job with the NHS at the beginning of December, part time (5 afternoons a week) and my first job as a working mother. Since starting, I've had to take 3 days off to look after my little boy as he's been poorly, and now he's got another virus which is showing no immediate sign of improving, so it looks likely I'll have to take tomorrow off, if not longer. So far, my boss has been very understanding, but really I'm wondering what my rights are? Is there a limit to how much time you can take off to look after your sick child? My boss explained to me that I won't get compassionate leave (which this would be classed as) until I've been working for them a year. It's very difficult for me to make up extra hours as I desk share. I'm reluctant to take it unpaid as I still have to pay the childminder, or out of my holiday entitlement, but am willing to do so to show willing. I just wondered if anyone knows legally, where a parent stands on this kind of thing, as if this past month is anything to go by, this looks likely to become a regular occurance!
Many thanks. Tina

have a look on the acas website - there is pleanty of infomrmation there about taking time off with a sick chil.hth

This time is generally classed as time off for dependants. That effectively means you can take it (as long as its unplanned and unexpected) but your employer does not have to pay you for it. You have absolutely no entitlement to be paid if your child is sick.

Its not compassionate leave, that has no real legal meaning.

Most employers are pretty understanding, particularly in the NHS. (I am an employment lawyer in the NHS!) Also be reassured by the fact that many kids get lots of illnesses when they start at nursery since they are being exposed to new germs. It settles down afetr a while.

In somewhere like the NHS there will be a 'policy'. I would contact your HR department and ask them for a copy of the policy.

But I think your best solution is to find some mates in a similar position, but working different times to you. Offer to have their child(ren) when they are similarly stuck, or if they just want to go shopping unhampered by little ones. Then when you are stuck they'll return the favour.

Personally I think having paid time off to look after ill children on a regular basis may be legal, but it's not reasonable. Generally it's your colleagues you are dumping on. It's much better to find ways of avoiding this happening.

What are the alternatives Roisin? Unless people have relatives to help out (who typically won't come out when they're ill anyhow). I think it is VERY good friends who offer to look after poorly kids since it means they will all get whatever it is too. And most poorly children want their parents at home.

I don't think it is unreasonable at all in just the same way that sick leave isn't unreasonable. It is reliant on colleagues but we'd all cover for them in the event of their personal crises also. That parents might have to do more of this is no reason to place additional burdens on parents: instead, employers have to get to grips with how to cover.

I would most definately have to make the time up or take it unpaid.
I had to make the time up when I was off for planned surgery. It was either that or lose pay or use my holiday. Those were the choices I was given. Not even the option of sick pay as it was planned absence. And that was for me.
My employer would expect me to have made arrangements for eventualities such as my child being unwell. They might have allowed me unpaid time to make arrangements the first time (by that I mean arriving a hour or so late while I found someone to look after my child not staying off until they were well again). Three days+ in two months would have been viewed very dimly which is why I work evenings. I'm allowed 3% absence in any 6 month period (even if the absence is because I'm ill or I have taken it unpaid)...by my rubbish calculations you're already at 5% in two months...You'd have got a verbal warning about your attendance if you worked where I do. I'd be very appreciative of the NHS if I were you!!
Hope your ds is well soon.

At my work we have 5 days a year as 'exceptional leave for parents'. These are paid days. If your child is ill you can use one, however if your child has say chicken pox you couldnt use all 5, you're supposed to use the 1st one to arrange alternate care for the rest of the days iyswim.

So to use all 5 you'd need 5 separate child illnesses.

Thanks for that. I was having a look on the government website at the unpaid leave to look after dependants thing. Makes sense, and of course i understand that it shouldn't be the employer's responsibility to pay you when your children are ill, however, I agree with Wilfsell. It's incredibly difficult to find friends or relatives to look after an ill child - my mother has already said she won't do, as she firmly believes that the best place for a poorly child is at home with his or her mother/father - and how can I argue with that? And I certainly wouldn't expect my friends to look after him. They have their own children and if it's contagious, which it more often than not is with children, it would be irresponsible of me to let him mix with other children, not to mention that it's a lot to expect of another person. If a friend of mine called up and wanted me to look after their sick child, I would be very reluctant to. It's one hell of a responsibility.
Hey ho, I guess it's just one of the pitfalls of being a working mum. I'd love to stay at home with him but unfortunately finances will simply not allow it. Just have to hope that his immune system will get stronger!

it does get easier, this time two years ago my dds were going to the cm for first time and everyone came down with flu one after another. dh and i felt like we managed about one months work in a two month period, as one of us was always at home. since then I've had two days at home because of child sickness.

can you share the sickness caring with your dh/dp? we take it in turns to be at home but both have blackberries so can still have contact with work (nhs too) and deal with email or phonecalls.

My mum is an NHS occupational health nurse and says a lot of the staff don't realise that it is not their "right" to have as much sick leave (or children-are-sick leave) as they need because it may mean that they are not fulfilling the terms of their contract.

Do you have a partner? If you split the time off it makes it less burdensome. No reason why you should be the one to take the time off every time imo.

If you both have jobs that don't allow you to make up the time you need to take off, then you may need to accept that you'll have to reserve some of your annual leave to cover this. I have friends who do this.

You should talk to HR and your boss. One of my guys has had to have quite a lot of time off recently as his dd has been hospitalised, it's been v worrying as she was in for weeks but fortunately she's now home and making a good recovery.

We have six days special leave per 12 months, and he is making up the rest of the hours because he normally only works 4 days a week, so has upped this to even things out. Parental leave only applies after six months and with notice (how reasonable, I should just book September off every year since as soon as the kids go back to school every bug on the planet makes a visit).

HR have been really good throughout (as have I as the boss - hee hee) at worst you will end up doing what I do, which is hoarding all your leave in case you need to take it unexpectedly to look after an ill child, and then coming in in January realising you've got the whole lot to take by March! (Obv if you're part-time this is more tricky)

Think your mum's being a bit dogmatic, to be honest, I think ds would be okay if grandma were here and he was unwell. Can your dp/dh not take some time off to share the burden?

I think my boss said ours was something like 4-5 days a year? I have taken a week off before. When DD had croup and was in hosp I took two weeks off and agreed between me and my boss that I would take one day as parental leave/special leave (paid) and one week annual leave. The alternative would be one week unpaid leave. I get a couple of week parental leave, but that is unpaid, and it covers for example school holidays when no annual leave is left or planned hospitalisation.

Other than that I have the odd day here and there and I have just told my boss and it has been recorded as god knows what! And I have been paid.

Have a chat with your boss tomorrow, tell thm you are worried about the implications of your absences and talk about what you can do to make things easier for you as a new working mum and for them as employers who have to manage your time. I am sure if your boss is supportive now, he will continue you to be if you are honest

that should read 'I took two weeks off and agreed between me and my boss that I would take one week as parental leave/special leave (paid) and one week annual leave'

I work in the NHS.

What I can't understand is how you are supposed to save enough annual leave to cover school hoidays as well as taking time off for sick children?

My daughter starts school in september so after that my annual leave will need to be reserved for her holidays. I am also expecting a baby, who will go into nursery three days a week next year. They get sick all the time at that age (and right through). If I have no annual leave that's not reserved for school holidays, then I have to take unpaid leave.

I think all employers whould show some more understanding. We are raising the next generation FFS, we have enough on our plates juggling work and children without being finaniclaly penalised for having to actually parent them when they need us.

I know some people who have chosen not to have kids and they think working parents are selfish for wanting more time off, however, it's our kids who will be paying their pensions!

In reality most normal employers are reasonably understanding about childrens illnesses provided they are not on a consistent basis.

However I can't quite understand mogwais pov that an already stretched NHS or indeed any other employer should be able to support limitless time off for dependants. What about those with elderly parents an ill partner or poorly pets ? Should they also get paid leave every time they need it ?

Personally I feel that the solution of unpaid leave is about the best that can be offered. Totally understand the issue about school holidays, but surely it would be better tackling this by having some government paid care during this time which perhaps could be means tested.

not sure that having a poorly child is the same as having a poorly pet TBH.

An ill partner or elderly parent may well need lots of care and there may be an emergency but the difference with poorly children is that they simply cannot be left alone.

As far as I know it's not illegal to leave a sick husband/mother/budgie alone while you go into work for a few hours but a child is a different matter.

Means tested paid care? Why means tested?

I was saying it fairly cackhandedly, but the point I was trying to make is that it is somewhat bizarre that generally ( the odd report outside) the government tends to feel it is a good thing if women work. Makes our country look progressive and gets all those lovely taxes in. Utter madness then to have 14(?) weeks of school holiday per year for parents to cover. Ideally there should be summer school places for children whose parents are working and ideally these would be paid for or subsidised for those on lower incomes i.e. families receiving tax credits.

I see what you mean

Yes I was thinking exactly this last night - what the hell do you do when your kids start school?

As far as I know, I could request term-time working but this still wouldn't leave me with annual leave to cover sickness if my new baby isn't able to attend nursery.

Sometimes I wonder why we bother...