Loads of Ishooos! Grievance, absence, maternity and vile boss!! Please help me....

[fedupwiththisnow]

Sorry this might be long.

I have a term time contract. I take 6wks summer, 2wks christmas and 2wks easter leave. My annual leave is set against this, as are my bank holiday/priv days and the rest is unpaid. My pay is apportioned to account for the unpaid leave. My leave year runs Aug to Aug.

I started maternity leave March 07. In April I would have taken 2 weeks easter leave. My new leave year would comm Aug 07 which would include 6 wks summer leave and 2 wks xmas leave. I agreed with my manager and included in my maternity leave application, that I would add this leave onto the end of my maternity leave.

My maternity leave ended Jan 08, and my A/L started. Dec and Jan were unpaid mat leave. Dec I was paid SMP - I called and queried and was told it was correct. Jan 08 I was again paid SMP - I called and queried as I should have been paid some A/L and the rest unpaid mat leave. Was told record wasn't updated to show on A/l, they would update and backdate any pmts.

Contacted manager who confirmed return to work letter dealt with - HR must have backlog. Checked for Feb pay - no pay at all. Called HR again still told record not updated, would now be treated as a hardship case and updated urgently. Pmt into bank within 3 days...

3 Wks later and still no pay. Contacted HR and was told term time contract withdrawn in Aug 07 so not entitled to take leave. Mat pay was incorrect. 2wks in April 07 owed I should have been paid for. Our payslips are electronic, I never rec'd them while on mat leave to my home. I used to go in and check them. Discovered at this point I should have been getting them to home address.

Hr confirmed I would not be receiving any A/L pay as was not entitled. I stated that even without TT contract I would be entitled to 25days, so pay that and I'll return to work... HR refused until they calc'd what I'd used. Er none - I was on mat leave!? Stated at this point that I had no money, a DH who lives away, and two small children. Still no help.

I filed my first grievance end of Feb 08, stating that I could not return to work as I had no financial means to do so. I had to pay my CM in advance being the main problem.

This went unanswered. Phonecalls back and forwards, was implied by HR that my place of work were witholding my records so they could not calc leave, also that all problems were my managers fault as he had incorrectly advised me. I filed my second grievance Mid April as still no pay and no answer to original grievance. This stated that unless a meeting was arrange to D/W pay I would consider myself constructively dismissed. This was with help of CAB solicitor.

Finally had answer! Letter received - only written corres through whole thing, despite my numerous requests for conf in writing - letter details every mth of mat pay as being incorrect, first couple underpaid, then final 3 mths overpaid. Only exp for either is that they paid me for April 07 leave I should have taken. (But they've paid me Mat pay for my leave - is this right) No other exp just lots of should have been figures, then actual figures and differences.

The upshot being they calculated I was due £1700 odd, but they deducted £1300 overpayments from it, and after tax and NICs etc they paid me 300 odd (sorry don't have the figs in front of me). Despite knowing that we were suffering financial hardship as a result, and that amt wasn't enough to pay CM to return to work. and no exp of O/p's and U/p's.

Meeting arranged with Boss's boss. He agrees to pay 1 mths salary to help return to work, then deal with other ishoos seperately. After meeting I call to conf ret to wrk date and find out when to exp pmt. Was advised could not make pmt as HR advised no way to do it. If however I could get sicknote from GP they would pay me.

I wish I hadn't but I couldn't afford not to, so I got 1mth sick note from GP was paid, and ret to wrk in June. Filed another grievance in early July re pay problems. Joined training team to refresh due to nature of work, but only for end of training, so not all areas. Took 3 days spec leave as DH rushed to hospital, had to have emergency surgery, and also DS had chicken pox, DH was looking after him so also no childcare.

Had 6 wks TT leave and ret in Sept08. End of Sept 08 Grandad died. Took 2 days comp leave ret to work, broke down was sent home. GP signed off for 1mth with stress. Had also lost Nan and FIL July and Aug 08 topped with financial worries, I pretty much had a breakdown!

Returned to work Oct, had mtng with mnger re absences having impact on work need to improve etc. Since then I have had one day off in Dec for kidney inf, and now this week I've had ear infection. Went to work, ear popped, grossness everywhere. Came home, lots of pain, stayed off 2 days. Ret today. Manager not in, but post it on her desk - my name on - I'm to be given written warning re absences- Monday I presume. Odd day in betw due to ill children - unexpected then I covered rest of their illness.

So two points. Grievance filed again in July was finally DW in Dec. They admitted HR at fault, DW badly, left in hardship etc... They offered £900 compensation. I appealed 05/01/09 against amt offered. Ranted on appeal form basically saying agree with decision but not comp. Due to time taken, way calc'd and recovered, attitude of HR staff - told me I would be dismissed - hardship has worsened. Nearly lost house, car, had to borrow money for holiday (DH won through his work, all exp paid, booked for two years) still in some arrears now. Credit rating ruined etc - I want comp for this. Now no reply to this except receipt to say recieved.
Think it's going to drag on - can't seem to convey financial urgency to anyone. How long should I wait ?? What would you do??

Secondly my manager. I requested when I returned to work to be transfered to back office as more flexible, whereas my office is customer based so has business hrs. This was in writing but was never replied to. I knew this would happen, which is why I requested it. The manager I have been put with has a rep for getting rid of problem team members. Every team member except me until now, has had written warning for attendance or performance. She has icon on pc desktop with my name on, sends me emails about updating personal records that I've either done or am not auth to do. She appraised me 12wks after I returned from 18mth absence and marked me as poor, thus preventing me from getting payrise, promotion etc, she belittles me in fromt of people, tells off anyone who gives me help when I ask if she's unavailable. She's very catty and talks about people to other team members all the time, so I'm always on edge wondering what she's saying about me. Now she's giving me this warning.

There has to be a meeting first, and I just don't know where I stand. Can she use any days off with kids against me, or just my personal sick? What about sick they told me to get note for? Guidence says warning should be given if no improvement, but since sept I've only had 4 days, and statshave improved almost in line with average stats. Also says that emps should not return until fit, today I went back still in agony because I was so worried.

Sorry I've really gone on, I understand if no one can be bothered to read, or make sense. It's been enough to get it out. I'm sat here in tears I'm so fed up. AAArgh.

Hi, very long post v short time to respond.
I understand you have been through a hard time with HR issues but is that £900 money owed or compensation. If it is compensation then it seems like a reasonable sum and surely for your own sake of mind you might be better to accept and write a line under the whole thing.

Sadly all sick leave can be counted unless you used a/l for when your DCs were ill. You do seem to have had a really rough time of it, but unfortunately all managers are obliged to monitor sickness records and follow the company line on these.

I would state what you have said here, you may also be able to bring someone else in to the meeting which I would strongly advise to take notes.

there are some excellent employment bods on here, so hopefully they will come along and help you.

The £900 is less than the supposed overpayment they recovered. To my mind they have never said what this overpayment is, it's just a random figure they've calculated and not backed up. IYSWIM?

And have taken any days off with DC's as A/L.

Have you contacted ACAS? They would be excellent people to advise you.

link here

Will try and have a look at this tomorrow.

fedup I'm not going to try to address in details all of your issues, that's impossible online with only limited information and it sounds as though it's a very long and involved story.

Few points that leapt to my mind though

-changing contract from term time to full time. They can't do this without your consent. Did you consent, or have you so far? Have you protested about this?

-overpayment. You say you haven't been told enough information about the overpayments but you also say they have given you a breakdown of what your payments should have been each month, what you actually received and the difference. That sounds fairly comprehensive to me, so any gripe with that should be about the actual figures, whether you disagree with their calculations or not.

-In terms of the £900 you have been offered, presumably that constitues any actual monies owed, plus any bank charges or penalty charges incurred, plus a bit for the problems you went through? Have you asked for a specific amount more?

-doing an appraisal 12 weeks after 18 months absence isn't particularly good practice - I'd prefer to see it postponed for a month or two longer to enable a proper assessment. Either way, did you appeal the rating you were given?

-warning for absence are fine, and it doesn't matter if the absence was accompanied by a medical note or not. It also doesn't matter that it's improved since September, often it will be about a total number of days over a year or similar. Do you have an absence policy explaining how much is acceptable or anything similar? Either way, if you disagree that the warning you are being given is fair, you can appeal it. If you feel that taking annual leave with no notice for kids illness shouldn't be included, then say so. I'm assuming it was agreed on the day or very shortly afterwards that this would be annual leave rather that sickness absence? Allowing you to take absences like that as annual leave could just be a mechanism to get you paid for it, to avoid it being unpaid dependents' leave. You are entitled to a day or two unpaid emergency leave for things like this, so if it's just been that type of thing, you can't be penalised for taking it.

-Do they know you are not fit for work? If you're not fit you shouldn't return and they shouldn't allow you to return.

What do you actually want to achieve? You could consider claiming constructive dismissal, that would involve seeing a solicitor, then resigning and claiming immediately. Lots of disadvantages to that, including most immediately the fact that you won't be getting paid, plus it will take months, it will be very stressful and compensation received might not be as much as you hoped.

Have you looked at your house insurance to see if you have legal cover? Are you in a union, have you spoken to them?

Ok point by point - changing contract was not by consent. I have scrutinised all our guidence and nowhere does it say that TT ceases while on Mat leave. My place of work are still advising people currently on mat leave in the same way I was advised. Nothing was sent to me when TT ceased, I have returned to a TT contract.

Yes it is the calcs I disagree with. Eg for April I was U/paid. They calc'd what I was due, what I was paid. Then that I should have had 2wks holiday pay. But instead of an amount of apportioned A/L, they have pd me the reduced rate of SMP for 2wks. And every month is like that.

The £900 doesn't cover anywhere near. My argument is that our guidence on pay disputes says, Hr can recover monies owed, however no hardship will be caused, arrangements made Etc... I A) Don't think it should take 12wks for a pay section to calc incorrect pay figs B) Because before they worked out what was wrong, they for 5wks kept assurring me I would be paid, we weren't able to prepare financially. If we had known my Dh could have come home, we would have paid all the important bills and tried to find enough to pay chilcare and ret to work. Because we couldn't we had already missed some pmts before they worked out that it was all drastically wrong. and C) when they did finally work it out (even though the figs don't add up) in line with their guidence I feel that they could have not recovered all of the supposed O/P. I could have had enough to pay childcare and some bills, made an arrangement to pay anything owed and not worsened our financial position. IYSWIM?

I refused to sign my appraisal. and put it in writing that I did not agree with the timeframe used to appraise me. She said it didn't matter, that's what I would be getting, stormed out of the meeting room and was blunt with me for the rest of the day.

Yes it is emergency leave that I take as annual to get paid. She keeps bringing it up though. And yes there is a x days or x occasions policy.

Sat was extra shift so no manager, thus no Fit for work. Annoyed really - if I had known I was getting warning anyway I wouldn't have gone in. I feel worse for it.

I am in the union and they are helping, I just hate that it's taking so long. What I would like is to be financially compensate us to put us in the position we were in before it happened. I don't and never did want to lose/ leave my job. Problem now is that there isn't a way to compensate us because things have just snowballed. Some things just couldn't be paid and as a result I have a CCJ. That means that for the next 6 years I cannot apply for any kind of credit. I'm most upset about mortgage and car. We desperately need a new car, but can't get one. We had planned to change - we have 3 door just not big enough, not coping well with family life! - once I was back at work. Before this happened it wouldn't have been a problem. Now it's not possible. DH lived away because he was based near his head office while training for promotion. I didn't want to move away from my family and friends with new baby, or take DD out of school just for 1 yr. So he lodged during week and home at wkends. Meant money was tight, but we don't have unmanagable outgoings and was only temp etc..

Once promoted we could have afforded to move, and were considering a move nearer DH family a lifestyle choice. Now we can't and won't be able to any time soon.

So I don't know anymore. I am gutted about it. It just gets worse having to face manager everyday, or get an email saying sorr haven't dealt with because I've been doing X or Y or whatever. Very

Ok so the change of contract is no longer an issue.

In terms of the calculations, obviously I don't have all the ins and outs. You say you started maternity leave in March, but as you are saying it was incorrect to pay you SMP in April, I assume you actually mean you left work in March, taking holiday during March and April, starting maternity leave, and therefore SMP, in May? You say 'every month was like that', but assuming you started SMP in May, then every month should have been SMP only - are you disagreeing with the way they have calculated your SMP?

You say the £900 doesn't cover 'anywhere near'. Again, do you mean it doesn't cover anywhere near the financial loss you have suffered, or is not enough in your opinion to compensate for the treatment you have had? I am assuming if the former, that you have supplied details of all financial losses incurred? I agree of course that you should have an amount over and above that to compensate you for the way they have behaved and the impact it has had on you and your family.

You say 'once promoted' you would have been able to do this and that. Do you mean you rather than your DH? Were you due a promotion and you feel this has been withheld from you? That's a different issue to the pay cock-up really.

I'm going to have a break from MN for a bit now, but I'm sure your union is helping you, and aside from the comments and queries I've raised, I'm not sure there's anything else I can say to help you at the moment, it's about negotiating a more appropriate settlement if you're not happy with the one offered, and getting your union to press hard for it. Hope you get it sorted anyway.