Can I pick the brains of HR people please - employer changing flexible working arrangement

[PavlovtheCat]

I have had a flexible working arrangement in place for 18 months. As part of this, I had an informal verbal arrangement that I would work from home on an ad hoc here and there basis, as there was not enough work identified to allow me formal weekly hours as part of my contract. This was agreed, to recognise that on occasion if DD was poorly, or had slept badly, I would be able to look after her at home by leaving work a bit early on occasion (sharing with DH who was also doing the same) and completing the time at an appropriate time (ie when she was alseep). This would cover research/theory reading/prep for groups/training and development work etc, the odd notes from groups.

My line manager has since changed and I told her of this arrangement to make sure she was aware, she said she was not happy with this, why should I be able to do this if no-one else was. I tried to point out that if work permitted, other parents with children under 6 were also allowed to request this, but she did not really get it. She just seemed to think I was getting special treatment.

Anyway, she said she would leave it until my next supervision, yet to happen. In the meantime I was asked by her to provide copy of my request for flexible working (i think she just wanted to see it existed, another story to that) which I did, and it stated my request for the above home working included in my change of hours.

She has emailed me telling me that this was fine with my other manager, but with new line manager and restructure, she could not see how it would work now or be appropriate, the tone was very much not 'i wish to discuss your flexible working arrangement' but more 'it is no longer applicable'. We are going to discuss this at a future date.

I spoke to my TU rep who said that this is a formal part of my flexible working, as it was requested and agreed, even if not in writing, and by the nature of this being put into practice over a period of time, now forms part of my contract by its existance, in the same way as my hours are now part of my permanent contract.

I guess I just wanted a HR take on this. Is a line manager able to overturn a flexible working arrangement because they no longer want it in place? Or is there a specific process where they have to provide reasons? Although there has been a restructure and some of role has changed, the areas that allowed me to work from home still remain as part of my role.

Is it a formal flexible working request that was agreed, or is it an informal verbal arrangement? It doesn't necessarily matter hugely but it's not clear.

Regardless of that, changes to your terms and conditions made as part of a formal flexible working are permanent, and therefore no easier for an employer to change than any other contractual term.

Is there any evidence anywhere of this arrangement, other than the original request you made? Any evidence that it your request was agreed? If not, how will you prove it was in fact agreed at all, and you weren't just granted permission to work from home occasionally as anyone might be? Playing devil's advocate a bit.

Leaving that aside, assuming this is a permanent contractual term, she will need your consent to change it, but you may find it very difficult to unreasonably withhold your consent. This isn't her trying to change your hours or pay or similar. Refusing consent to your employer's attempt to withdraw ad hoc here and there working at home might be more difficult than if they were saying your new hours of 3 days a week are now being withdrawn and you have to now work 5 days, iyswim?

oh sorry. I had formally requested it be considered, and it was an informal agreement actually made, in that it was not in written format like the formal request.

Yes, I see what you mean.

In terms of evidence - that is part of the other story. All the paperwork sent by my line manager in relation to any of my flexible working was 'lost' by my manager and HR appear to have never seen it. The consequences of this was some overpayment and it was when I spotted this overpayment that the lack of paperwork was realised. HR state they have never received it.

The formal form was completed in the meeting signed there, and 'sent off' by my line manager, and I never received a copy (I was recently back from a long period of bereavement and thus not really on the ball to ask for it). Consequently, when now putting into place and backdating my flexible working agreement, they have been happy to use my formal email request as this is the only evidence I have. Apart from the word of the other manager, who I have no reason to think she would not confirm it.

I am not really stressed about it, I just have a history of not getting on with this manager so well and she does not really seem to understand much about 'people' (more a spreadsheets person iyswim) and I just don't want to think she is making decisions without actually understanding what she is doing, and likewise I do not want to be forced to change something I do not have to.

Oh and thanks for replying flowerybeanbag, I was relying on you

My TU rep has suggested that should she not wish to continue this informally, then I should put in a new, formal request for specific hours, at say 2 hours per month working from home....what do you think?

Ok. Well when you meet to discuss it how you approach it will obviously depend on her attitude.

Ideally I'd suggest a constructive approach, acknowledging that she has concerns and addressing them appropriately, asking her to outline exactly what she feels the problems are with this arrangement you have currently in place (emphasising the currently in place bit rather than allowing any 'used to' language to creep in) and dealing with them, or assuring her how they will be dealt with should they occur.

If she's not interested in being constructive at all, you could play hard ball and say that as part of your agreed flexible working request this is a part of your terms and conditions and your consent is required to change them.

Best scenario for all concerned is probably a compromise whereby you won't put your foot down and make trouble refusing to consider any change, and she won't try and impose a change on you, and in return there is a middle ground agreed between you, for the benefit of all and to help with a good working relationship going forward.

Bear in mind that the bottom line is for this type of change as long as she feels she has decent business grounds for pushing it through, she could probably force it through. But there are some significant hoops to jump through if she wants to do that, which is why a compromise is good for all.

Confused by your TU rep saying on one hand she can't do this, and on the other hand suggesting what you should do if your manager does want to do this. Surely by putting in a new request you are accepting that your manager has the right to withdraw the previous one? I would suggest attempting a compromise first, then refusing to accept if no compromise forthcoming, and put in a new formal request only if you feel forced to accept.

thanks - my TU rep means well, but he is new and a little green behind the ears, hence me seeking additional advice on here! I think what he means is give her an ultimatum, as there are no real grounds on which to refuse my request for working from home for 2-4hours per month, easily justifiable and not detrimental to the co, more to force her hand is what I am thinking.

But, she has no decent business grounds to push this through, as there is nothing relating to the work I would do at home that has now changed (in fact, there is much to argue I would be more productive working for 2 hours in the evening at home in quiet than in an open plan office with 40 other people around me). I think she thinks that if I am allowed, then others might ask for it, rather than seeing the fact this is flexible working related.

Her attitude will be one that baffles me. she baffles me whenever she speaks, I end up feeling more confused about whatever she is talking about than I was before she started speaking! This is in all areas, not this one specifically. She sort of talks in spreadsheets (not sure if that makes sense) and she overexplains the manager side of things and ends up making things so complicated no-one knows what is going on! Often, she will send minutes of a meeting, and people go...huh? was that said? when? we did not mean that exactly? was this the same meeting we were at? .

The reality is it is not a huge big deal if it is taken away from me. I will manage as I do not use it too often as it is (for fear of colleagues thinking I am taking the piss, and not too much need to come home for DD), but I do not like the idea that a manager can just change something another manager has already approved, because 'she does not work that way' [stubborn I guess, history of being treated badly, i guess covering my back now)

Well the bottom line is she can't just change it, but the question will be how much fuss are you prepared to make about it if she does and whether there is a middle ground that can be reached.

If you take it all the way, she could terminate your employment and then reemploy you on the new terms and conditions, and the ball would be in your court as to whether you want to bother claiming unfair dismissal, which would probably be pointless tbh, and not likely to be successful either for something like this I'd say. She will gamble that you won't want to take it that far but will also want to avoid the hassle of having to push it.

what is your HR person like? If you get on wiht them, you might find it easier to pop in on an informal basis and ask that they have a word with your line manager to explain the current law etc and your rights - it saves you having to do it and potentially upping the ante between you. She probably just doesn't realise that she is in the wrong here. Even if you don't have anything in writing, the fact that your salary has been adjusted to reflect flexible workign shows clear enough evidence of your ongoing entitlement, even if the paperwork has goen awry.

flowerybeanbag - I am absolutely sure she would not sack me, and then re-employ me, its a government org, and she does not actually have the power to sack me (it would be HR I think).

Squiffy - I get on with the HR woman even less. Unfortunately I had an enormous issue which led to a grievance, which implicated both the manager and the HR woman . Due to serious personal issues, it was sort of 'put aside' as it was dragging out so long, I needed closure and was not getting it. I could not face a lengthy greivance continuing to ET. The HR woman is a power mad obsessive who would most likely love to get rid of me should she ever find excuse. The best way of dealing with her is to not deal with her at all if I can help it (she told me, 2 days before I was about to give birth, after months of bullying and pregnancy related discrimination at work ) that I would not get a job I had applied for, as it started when I was on mat leave, and they had not arranged cover for me, my current role was to be split amongst others - she told me that because I was on mat leave and unable to start, they needed someone who could start right away, I would not be offered the job even if successful at interview, so she saw no point offering me an interview. I was in tears talking to her, telling her she can;t do that, its illegal and she told me she can and left me on the other end of the phone in a state of distress. She then denied saying this. But the damage was done and I withdrew from the job, and she lost any respect or trust in her.

Flowerybeanbag - I think i will see what she says and if she is insistent on withdrawing it I will want her to give me reasons.

If it is because no-one else works from home. Well, she does, and she has no young children. Other colleagues of mine work from home to do reports,prep etc (which we are not even allowed to do).

If it is because of confidentiality, she took home a pile of staff job applications to sift through at home. She also lost some highly confidential paperwork in a street and it was handed in (I would never dream of taking that kind of sensitive information out of the office).

Maybe I will raise those things with her as a discussion .

Sounds like a plan. Let us know how you get on.