My DH has been sacked in his probation period for no reason...

[ItsaJollyHolidayForMary]

I am a regular, namechanged in case people know me in RL (no-one else knows this info yet)

He was employed in Aug for a voluntary sector organisation doing 20 hours a week, on a split role, of sorts, although there was never clear or set hours for each part of the job, they sort of merged, with a 6 month probation period.

He has had 2 days of training since being there, one was job related, the other was a general induction day (morning). This last training was organised badly and DH went in early to set help set it up, go get sandwiches and nothing was sorted etc.

Other than that, no training. He has been thrown into the job , not shown how to do it, his manager is not ever in, his supervision has been sporadic and vague since he has been there, can never pin his manager down to meet. Others in the office are frustrated with the managers working style as he has no plan or idea of where he is going with things.

Since DH has been there he has worked additional hours, helped out on a weekend project that he gave up his own time for. He has had on day off sick since being there.

His manager has been off work most of December with sickness, reason unknown. When he came into the office at the begining od December, he remembered he needed to do supervision with DH, and he took him out for breakfast, no work was discussed.

DH has never been given any indication that he was not working well, he has had good feedback from colleagues as far as he knows. He has completed as much of his work as possible in the hours, but has recognised that it has been hard to do his job with no guidance, no clear understanding of his role (his boss seemed to think his job description was out of date and needed updating, part of what DH needed to be doing, checking the work he needs to do in this role etc).

DH was told by his boss there was scope to expand the role in the future, and was even given details of another job coming up (additonal hours of 6, not instead of, to run alongside).

He went into work today after the office has been officially shut over christmas and they told him (his manager and another person) they are not happy with his work and he is given a weeks notice. They told him he did not have to work out this notice (paid). They gave him no explanation, no reason of what might have gone wrong, and they even had the letter waiting for him, with details of what holiday pay he was going to get as a cheque sent to his house.

Now, the purpose of this post is for advice, but I am not sure what kind. We are very aware, that the lack of reason is irrelevant as he was 5 months into a 6 month probation period. I guess it is just so shit. They obviously has this planned (the letter, the failure to do supervision, breakfast instead). I am just so furious that they have behaved like this. DH is more angry than upset right now. He feels he has been a fall guy for the managers failure to do his job well, as DH has been landed which much of the work the manager should have been doing (as part of the 'its your role really' speel).

AAAARGH. My poor DH. He needs a fucking break.

I meant to say we know legally they can fire him for whatever reason they like right now. But its shit still. If he was crap, fine, but he was not only not crap, he was good at it, and they gave him no reason to think otherwise

Oh I feel for you and DH.

My DH was made redundant from a bullying BIG firm last year but luckily found a job straight away. He earns a lot less, works more hours and shifts but he loves the work. Now has been told firm is closing within next 2 months

In our area some major firms are closing down/downsizing so there arent many jobs going.

This happened to my mum, different job description but same sort of outline
totally out of order but there is not alot that can be done,

he can request the reasons in writing though
for the termination of employment

It sounds like a job I was fired from a couple of years ago.

A 6 month probation period is very long, they are normally half this. It may be worthwhile going to see the CAB but to be honest with you, the 'probation period' puts a spanner in the works. Most employment protection kicks in once an employee has been working in the same company for 12 months (apart from sex discrimination, disability, race).

It sounds like he's better off out of there. Small blessings and all that.

I'm really sorry for your hubby. It makes me wonder if these people do that every 6 months to save taking on a permanent person? A friend of mine was sacked and later found out that the company he worked for does that. Not saying it's the same in your hubbys case. I would be very upset too. Is he working his notice?

He should still be able to appeal against his dismissal, and has the right to written reasons outlining why he was dismissed.

I have to say in the public and voluntary sector (I can't speak for the private sector) it is usual to give an extension to the probationary period to give time for an improvement.

Now, for a dismissal to be fair he should have the right to appeal against it to someone who wasn't involved in the original hearing. Was he given the opportunity to be accompanied at the probationary meeting which dismissed him? V dodgy if he wasn't.

I wonder if this is a sham, masking a withdrawal of funding or something.

I should add that a failure to follow a fair procedure when dismissing someone means it is an automatically unfair dismissal, even with less than 12 months service. I think the compensation is something like 4 weeks pay but I may be wrong.

try ACAS

They haven't gone about things in the right way atall. You can't sack someone without first discussing their performance and giving them a chance to change the way they work, even in a probation period.

(Unless gross misconduct which is clearly not the case for your DH)

You need to get him to make a list of all the things that have made his job difficult (lack of training/supervision etc) and then seek proper legal advice.

I'm sure CAB can help.

Good luck!

CAB can probably help but speed is important here. Get the appeal in, give them a reasonable amount of time to deal with it and then if necessary, lodge an ET claim.

Check your house insurance, you may be covered for legal advice for employment related matters. But consult an employment solicitor.

Thank you for the kind words and advice.

He has been told he is not required to work out his notice, and he would not do it anyway as he is too upset/angry.

Lilred - interesting the things you say, let me me respond to some of them:

1. We have both this morning discussed possible funding issues, as another colleague has had her funding withdrawn, but there was never any discussion of her leaving - she has worked there a long time. DHs job is a core job, and we wondered if in the next couple of months, it will transpire that this person is doing his job.
2. His manager is responsible for applying for funding bids and he is often late with deadlines, and has been off for an entire month - possible he missed a major one?
3. He was given no notice that there was anything amiss, and as such he was given no notice that he was going to have a meeting, which would result in being sacked. He therefore had no chance to have some-one with him. It was not a 'meeting' as such, rather he went into work, called into the office, told his employment was terminated as they were unhappy with his work. He was given no chance to give feedback, ask any questions. He was in there 5 minutes.
4. There was not any suggestion of probationary period being extended, not an option.

Interesting that it is unfair dismissal potentially even within 12 months - he is furious, he does not want to go back even if they withdrew their decision.

And we do agree scrooged - he thinks this has happened for a reason too, and we are trying to think New Year, New Start, rather than what a shit start. We are very very lucky in that we have some finances to fall back on. It will mess us up of course, using money we should not be using, but its better than losing our home - if this happened last year. We would be fucked screwed.

What is the timescale for a claim? Obviously, right now DH is so furious he does not want to do anything today. He has said he will write to the board of directors/trust who meet monthly, and tell them his issues, why he considers his sacking unfair, and also everything he feels is wrong with the org and the manager in particular.

llred - oh yes, we are covered for legal advice on our house insurance! I know that as I only renewed it last month and remember thinking 'do I want this' (additional option) and i have had issues with my employment so thought, oh we best keep it, you never know when you might need it!

llred - oh yes, we are covered for legal advice on our house insurance! I know that as I only renewed it last month and remember thinking 'do I want this' (additional option) and i have had issues with my employment so thought, oh we best keep it, you never know when you might need it!

Personally, I'd keep to the facts of the dismissal and forget about adding stuff about how the organisation is run.

Check out the ACAS code of practice on appeal processes and refer to the letter being an appeal against dismissal. Also mention:

1. DH wasn't offered the right to be accompanied
2. The lack of a process/procedure automatically makes the dismissal unfair (refer to the ACAS code of practice)
3. DH has not been given an opportunity to address the "work issues" quoted as being of concern, lack of an up-to-date JD etc, no supervision

I'd also have a think about what you want to get out of this. An ET might make an award but I guess you'd also want to ensure that your DH can get a reference out of this. I'm sure the organisation won't want the hassle of an ET so might be willing to compromise and settle a small sum and agree a reference?

Worth a go. But don't delay. Address the letter to the relevant person on the board of directord

Sounds like v bad management.
Is your dh in a union?

lilred - I just read your last post to DH. He agrees, he would like to be angry with them, but it wont be productive. Its not really about money. A months wage as compensation would of course not be sniffed at, BUT its the hassle, stress, loss of confidence, time it will take to get another job, and as you rightly pointed out, potentially no reference - I cannot see how he could not have a reference, as he is unable to ascertain what on hearth he has done wrong, so they have nothing bad to say about him..

Today, we are going to not do anything (although Iwill most likely still post, cant help it!!). Tomorrow/sunday, we will draft an appeal letter, as per ACAS code of practice (just going that their site now) and get it sent on Monday. It will not be a difficult letter to write, as it is very clear there is no procedure to this, and no reason given for dismissal.

Its just so bizarre and unexplainable - but DH says he now knows why his boss was a bit 'weird' at the christmas do...

He has just looked back to see when his last supervision was (not the breakfast, does not count imo), it was in October.

That may well be the case re reference, but it is far more likely that as things are they would state "failure to complete a satisfactory probationary period" on a reference. So you really need to fight for an agreed reference as an outcome.

llareggub - i keep spelling your name wrong . Thanks for that advice, its important that we do that.

Oh, everybody gets it wrong!

Good luck, and try to keep things in perspective. After all, they have acted unfairly and the general consensus on this thread supports that. It is a lot of hassle to fight these things, but you can bet that if you fight and win more employers will ensure they tighten up their procedures and management practices.

I really hope things go well, and I'm sure your DH will find something else soon. Best of luck.

Well I just spoke to Acas - this is what the man I spoke to said.

There is no legal standing whatsoever for DH as he has worked there for less than 12 months. He said that in reality the 'probationary period' is a fallacy, as if they want to dismiss you because of the colour of your shoes, they can do that at 2 months, 8 months or 11 months. Unless it is for reasons of discrimination of some kind, then, again, that will be unfair at 2 months, 8 months or 11 months. So Probationary period is not a reality.

He said, that they have to give no explanation, as said above, he can be sacked for anything they feel like, and often people are, he said it is an unfair and very common situation, but legally there is nothing he can do.

He said that DH should absolutely appeal, but not to expect a positive outcome. he also said that as far as a reference is concerned, it is up to them. They are not legally allowed to write a bad reference, but they can refuse to write one at all, or a very very basic one, which also not negative, will indicate that there was nothing positive. He said that if anything bad was written, DH would not be able to go down an employment route anyway, it would be a civil court for defamation.

So, as we thought originally really, no legal standing, just a bitter taste and a long slow January ahead of us. BUT, we will take DD out of nursery (or just a half day a week as she does enjoy it) and she will do lots of cool things with DH until he finds another job.

He cannot claim JSA/income support/any other benefits can he? As I am working (above the £14000 threshold). He has worked continuously for 2 years and paid NI, is he entitled to anything?

perhaps that last bit should be another thread.

Hmmm, I have a different understanding to the ACAS chap. The failure to follow a fair procedure is an automatically unfair reason for dismissal regardless of service.

Will google and return.

entitled to 6 mths jsa uf looking fir job and ni paid up to date

i'm sure when i've dismissed people with less than 12 months service or issued a warning or whatever the system we use asks you to delete the phrase 'you have the right to appeal this decision..'

also let child tax working tax know as tis will affect your payment if you already claim or if not you may be entitled to something prob child tax credit