does anyone remember my thread last week about my manager...

[thirtysomething]

giving me a pep-talk a week before an interview for the post i'm already doing on an informal basis? And that she seemed to be telling me it wasn't a dead cert after all that I'd get it and implied there were better candidates after telling me for weeks they all wanted to give the job to me? well against the advice on here I really couldn't go through with the interview ordeal as my confidence was shattered....my gut instinct was right as they gave it to a male, internal candidate who has no kids and is younger than me....apparently we are quite similar on paper but he HASNT been doing this job for ages (and they've always been v. happy with my work) and he hasn't got health issues (they know I've had some hospital appointments on my days off and have tried to find out why on several occasions....)So it's become clear now that in the end they would have gone for him anyway (and in fact when they told me they picked him they enquired after my health in the same sentence!). i've been told my services are no longer required and am totally gutted. confidence and self esteem in shreds. i've made huge sacrifices for that place and not they've replaced me with a younger model!!

thirtysomething I'm sorry you are feeling so down about it.

It's a shame you decided to withdraw your application. I have to say based on your previous threads, you didn't say anything to make me think that was necessary at all.

I'm not sure why you think your decision was right to withdraw because they offered the job to someone else? Of course they did, you left them with no other option. You also don't say anything that leads me to believe that his gender, age or childfree status is relevant at all - I'm not sure where you are getting that impression from. I know sex discrimination does still happen but the kind of employer who gives the job to a young man because he is young and a man is very rare these days, even more so when there is someone in situ doing the job perfectly well already. As I say, nothing you've said indicates that your employer is like that. You say they have 'replaced you with a younger model', but you withdrew from the application process, so they needed to replace you and he was the best candidate left available.

How has it 'become clear' that they would have gone for him anyway? If you are similar on paper but you are more experienced at the job and they have always been very happy with your work, why would you think they would have gone for him anyway if you hadn't withdrawn your application?

I'm not sure why them asking after your health is relevant either tbh.

I don't want to seem critical, I feel genuinely sorry you are so upset about this, but unless there is an awful lot you are not telling us, I think you are being very unfair to your employer to be so disproportionately bitter about this situation, and unfair to your colleague to think the reason he got the job was because he is a young man.

Is it remotely possible that deep down you were scared of the process and scared of being appointed to do the job on a more formal basis, and have latched on to things that have been said and generated them into reasons to justify your decision to withdraw, and things outside your control that you can then blame? If in your mind they were never going to give you the job because they wanted a young man, then that's nothing you could do anything about, they are awful and you don't need to take any responsibility for the insecurity you were feeling.

I might be completely wrong, obviously, I don't know you or much about the situation. It's just a thought though, and might be worth exploring with yourself at a later date.

I hope you manage to move on, find something you want to do, can 'let go' a bit and start to feel more positive.

I think that is a wise post Flowery.

I do agree with Flowery. Is it possible they were asking about your health as thye are worried about you and thought this was why you had withdrawn your app?

Thank you flowery for your honesty. my point was that they were very supportive of me in the role until they received lots of applications. At the meeting last week my manager stressed how many strong applications there were and a couple who looked a lot better than me on paper and that i was going to have to really impress at interview.

I saw this as a total change in approach, as if they had been surprised by the interest in the post and the calibre of the candidates, which highlighted the fact I had fallen into the post rather than it being a chosen career path. It thus seemed as if they wanted to hint that the job no longer had my name on it and that I had to compete for it, which was totally not what they'd been saying up till then!! I withdrew as I knew I didn't have the qualifications on paper to match other candidates as they took delight in telling me, and I felt my confidence in my ability to do the job had been totally undermined. I am now certain they wanted to give it to this guy all along (as they only interviewed 2 candidates out of 11) for the reasons I have said.

Flowery - I mention his age, gender and child-free status as during that meeting last week i was asked a lot about how i manage to fit in work around my children, my childcare arrangements etc. Looking back I feel she wasn't just making conversation, she was weighing things up and making an assumption that given my health and family situation i would be likely to take time off. A previous manager was signed off for several 2-month blocks due to health issues last year and it created a lot of difficulties at the time as it's such a small organisation, so i think they are nervous of the same thing happening again.

Well my comments above still stand. I understand you're upset and I hope you find something positive to move on to.

I do think however it would be worth looking back and reflecting on this episode and your reactions and feelings during it at some point in the future, when you will be able to be more detached.

Best of luck with everything

I agree with you flowery that there will be much to be learnt from this episode and that it's worth looking back over it as I'm sure I have probably misunderstood and mismanaged many aspects of it. I just wanted to make the point that my reaction was in anger and disbelief as I'd been getting such strong messages of support and then all of a sudden these messages were replaced with very different signals - presumably once they'd seen the calibre of the candidates. My point was I hadn't changed at all but their attitude changed big time.

I'm a bit taken a back by your earlier post to be perfectly honest with you (and I get the feeling you don't mind people levelling with you? Correct me if I'm wrong).

It sounds a bit like you are accusing me of having totally over-reacted. I don't really come on here to be judged and to be told I'm being unfair to my employers - I just wanted an objective viewpoint as to whether my theory about how my manager has acted may have been right or not now that i know who they actually appointed.

I'm trained originally as a psychotherapist and your words strike me as very judgemental. Sorry if this seems ungrateful - i'm very appreciative when people spend time answering posts (and you seem to put a great deal into this section of the site, for which I'm extremely grateful) but your words have had quite an impact and I just wanted to let you know that.

I don't feel I am accusing you of anything. I am giving my own personal/professional opinion based on what you have said on this and previous threads.

Based purely on the limited information I have, quite frankly it does sound like you have over-reacted, yes. I don't think giving that opinion is judgmental. If you don't agree with or like my opinion, feel free to disregard it.

Unfortunately, like it or not, if you post on here for advice, as part of that advice you are likely to get frank opinions as well, obviously some of which you may not agree with. You wanted an objective viewpoint - I think my opinions are as objective as anything is likely to be on here.

Thanks for your response Flowery, i appreciate it. I don't really think I over-reacted, so we'll have to agree to differ on that one, but then I was at the meeting so my emotional reaction is based on that.

I think the bit that I found judgemental was the part where you came up with a hypothesis about being scared of going through with it and needing to find something external to blame for that. i really don't get how you came up with that and quite frankly found it a bit far-fetched and slightly insulting. Looking at my OP I can see that I come across as emotional - that is me, i do wear my heart on my sleeve on Mumsnet, i thought that we could share stuff on here we may not share or show in RL. But i did reach the decision after long hard thought - it took a lot to give up this job as I really enjoyed it and felt I had done well in it - and those around me, including DH who is very un-emotional about work, fully supported my decision.

I think we are obviously going to have to agree to differ!

That's fine.

I'm sorry you found what I said as a possible theory insulting. I think that's a shame as that was obviously not based on any personal knowledge of you and was suggested as a possibility for you to think about. I was not making any judgement, I don't have enough knowledge to do that, but was just making a suggestion. It may be wrong, but I don't actually agree that it was far fetched, and I think the comments from others would bear that out as well.

I don't think you need to take it personally if you feel it's not the case.

Best of luck again.

Thanks Flowery for your response.

Just to update - I had a meeting with my manager today and decided I had nothing to lose by asking her straight out whether I had picked up the right signals. She implied, with much embarassment, that whilst she would still very much have supported me as the best candidate others on the recruitment panel were more in favour of the other candidate (who got the job) due to his qualifications on paper and lack of other commitments. Apparently as there are some evening meetings involved they were also worried about childcare issues (not that this has ever been an issue but I think those that haven't worked with me on the panel had assumed it would be difficult to be that committed with children....)So I feel a bit better to know what was behind that first meeting and everything has fallen into place. I can also see that from their point of view this other candidate is a better choice really, as he does have the right training etc and has no other commitments. I think now i've got to the bottom of it I can start to move on.

Their attitude smacks of sex discrimination but since you withdrew your application, it's hard to complain about. However, I do think their approach stinks. No way should they be questioning your commitment because you have children, or assuming that someone without children is necessarily more committed.

that's how I felt Edam, which is why this whole process hasn't felt right as it felt as if stuff was happening behind the scenes.

What is it you do Thirtysomething? I am surprised your Manager told you that but if it helps you to move on then thats a good thing. Are you now job hunting?

I didn't read your first thread, but I do think you should have still gone through the interview process.
Sometimes experience speaks more than paper qualificaitons, or they do ime.
It is very difficult to do anything about what has happened when in actual fact they seemily have done nothing wrong as you were not interviewed for the post.