Returning to work after mat leave number 2

[OMaLittle]

Wrote in my email that I assumed it was acceptable to do the same hours I did last time i.e. 7.30am-5pm (most on desk work roughly 8-6). There were never any problems last time and I had good appraisals and substantial salary and bonus increases during the 18months I was back.

Boss has requested that I come in to talk to him about my hours prior to return as he 'needs to give it very careful consideration'.

Where do I stand? Frankly I would love to get made redundant (and they are doing redundancies) but I suspect they are trying to 'offer' me a position I can't realistically accept. Am I not entitled to 'terms and conditions no less favourable'? I am returning (just) within OML, by the way.

what does your contract say? and how long have you been off ? both of these make a difference don't they as that will dictate if you are askign for same terms or not.

Most employers are usually bloody careful not to go down the route of risking e'ees after ml positions they can't take

My contract is a basic 9 - 5.30 but I work 8 - 4.30/5 usually to work around childcare. Before I went on mat leave this time I asked my HR person if my contract needed to be reviewed to record these hours, and she said there was no need as I had been working the revised hours long enough and that would have superceded the contractual hours.

I don't know how long "long enough" is though - do you have an HR bod you can talk too?

Hmm. One issue is I actually have no recollection of signing a contract and wouldn't have the faintest clue where it was. I joined a two incarnations-prior company
(i.e. since been two takeovers/mergers) in 2000. I sus[ect it says 9-5 with a sort of 'but expected to work extra without pay' kind of thing. I have been off since March but had 25 days' hol so will be just within 9 months by the time I plan to go back.

Thanks.

What do you mean by 'last time'? Are those your contractual hours? Or have you been working those hours considerably for some time?

Basically if you return during OML you are entitled to your same job back on same t&cs, unless there is a redundancy situation.

After AML it would have to be a similar/suitable job on no less favourable t&cs.

Don't trust HR at all, they very much work for the company rather than the employee at my place of work!

Not sure what contracted hours are. Have been in role for 5+ years, at company for 8. Originally worked (in this role) around 8.45 till 7 (constantly in trouble for being late!). After DD1, returned within OML (6 months at that point) and shifted to agreed (though I basically just stipulated them the day I went back and boss agreed, lucky in retrospect) hours of 7.30am till 5pm. Worked another 18 months (until went on mat leave with DD2) at those hours and in that time there were no complaints and got pay rise and good appraisals etc. etc. Boss did try and 'suggest' I got a nanny this time when I told him I was pg but I am pretty sure he has no right to dictate my childcare agreements! Anyway live 1 hour commute from work so unlikely nanny would be any more flexible.

How long have you been working those hours? Does everyone work such long days? Just thinking about your contractual hours being 9-5 and the fact that you feel you need to ask whether working an hour and a half extra a day is ok....

Why did you feel you needed to ask whether you could go back to the same hours? Why did you not just assume that would be the case? Do you have any reason to assume your boss will have a problem with that and what do you think he wants instead?

Ok so 18months, sounds like your contracted hours.

Am very interested why you felt you had to ask and what you think your boss wants instead.

It was literally a kind of afterthought on my email. I rang him and said I was going back and he said 'drop me an email with the date in writing', so I wrote 'I assume the same hours will be OK, roughly 7.30 till 5' and then in his response he wrote the careful consideration thing. I am assuming that HR are thinking 'oh, that's a flex working request, we only have to consider it, if we can give her something that's non-workable she won't come back and then that's a headcount reduction of one that we haven't had to pay for', but I may just be being paranoid as this is what's happened to a friend of mine.

Should clarify I'm not sure what my contracted hours are. I might phone and ask HR.

Thanks for all your help and patience with my unclear rambling!

Oh, and in an ideal world my boss would have me working later as I am definitely the first to leave (but also first to arrive).

Right, you're on a trading desk, yes? So everyone works a lot longer than contracted hours and boss would probably prefer everyone did the same hours?

I would not ask HR what your contracted hours are. I would tell your boss. Something like "Thanks for your email. I would be happy to have a meeting to discuss my return. It obviously makes sense to get everything prepared for my return. In terms of hours, these are my current hours and I wasn't thinking of asking for any further changes, so I assume that's straightforward. However, if there is any admin we need to do, again happy to discuss."

Don't give them the option of telling you that your hours are not your contracted hours. Work on the basis that they are and force them to try and justify if they think that they are something different.

Not putting the changes in writing means zilch after they have been in force for such a long time.

What about this?

Thanks for getting back to me. I will contact [your secretary] about making an appointment with you to discuss my return. I assume this will count as a 'Keeping in Touch' occasion. Since I am not requesting any change to my existing hours (apologies if you found my initial mail to be unclear in this regard) I expect this aspect of the discussion to be straightforward.

(He asked me to come in to discuss it.)

Not a trading desk but not a million miles off - analyst/fund manager.

That's exactly what I would say. Go for it.

Let us know how you get on.

OK, have sent it. Will keep you posted. Will probably go in next Tues, my second morning off to myself in seven months as both DDs going into nursery. Joy!

WELL. I went in. Boss initially very cordial, brought HR lady to meeting. Started off by saying it wasn't the hours that bothered him, it was the lack of flexibility. Need to be flexible in this job, markets, etc. He said he had been unhappy with it before and never felt it worked (not mentioned in any appraisals, bonus up 150% last year, 100% increase on previous high, which I pointed out). I think he talked himself into a rut and the HR lady (surprisingly nice, but then they often SEEM like that...) appeared to be wincing. His only suggestion was that I get a nanny to PICK UP THE GIRLS FROM NURSERY AND TAKE THEM HOME!!!!! OK, so not see my children all week, then.

I asked to speak to the HR woman alone and made it clear that I knew this was an effective change of my terms and conditions.

Do I have anything to lose by telling her that I would happily take redundancy if they preferred that route?

I actually DON'T think having been in that they are trying to squeeze me out, I'd just forgotten what an absolute tool he is. Has really reminded me how much I don't want to go back.

In my untutored opinion he is certainly discriminating against me for having children. What he suggests is essentially impossible for anyone with children, or indeed anyone - his core request was that I need to be able to stay late at a moment's notice. Yes, I could SOMETIMES, as DH may be able to leave early and pick up the girls, but on an ongoing basis I can't promise to be contingently available every day, and neither, I believe, could anyone with children.

IMO, I wouldn't say that you would take redundancy. Redundancy means a comparatively low payout in most companies as against settling a sex discrimination claim.

Unfortunately, there is no heading of law that prevents discrimination against those with children (or without, which I think happens more frequently than we give credit for too - making them work over Christmas, giving them the long travel, etc). You have to argue it under sex discrimination (because women generally bear the main burden of child care).

If you are keen to go (and only if you are keen to go. It is hard to stop these wheels once they are in motion), I would ask to speak to HR on a without prejudice basis. I would then explain that you are unhappy with the attitude to, what are after all, your normal hours and that you find the veiled performance accusations very disturbing given your performance record (as proven by the figures). Then go on to say that you are committed to your job and to returning after maternity leave, but you feel upset and pressured by your manager's attitude. Whilst you don't want to get all legal and start making accusations, in your view there are clearly legal issues with the way he is behaving [try not to use the word sex discrimination first if you don't have to. It might tip you into being forced through a formal grievance process far too early in the day. Using those words is a bit like a trip wire for that - mention them and you're handed the grievance policy!] and it seems that he is not that keen for you to return. Therefore, you wanted to let HR know that you are willing to discuss a different resolution to all of this, but would be looking for a generous exit package.

If being able to stay late at the drop of a hat really is key to your work (and so often it isn't as things can be managed on your Blackberry or once the DCs are in bed), they will have to go through a process of dismissing you for performance/capability once you return, which sounds pretty difficult if your performance in the same circumstances was fine last time.

HTH

Ribena you really have a way with words, I mean it most sincerely. I lurve the reasoned and reasonable way you phrase things.
Is there a special module you HR bods have to do? I'm speaking as an ex English teacher btw

Aw shucks .

I'm on the legal side, rather than HR, but since having a way with words is pretty much my job I'm pleased you think I'm good at it. We do get training from time to time too!

Sincere thanks, Ribenaberry.

How funny, Dora, I was just thinking I would basically lift my words verbatim from that post. I need to look up 'without prejudice', though. Can I do a 'without prejudice' email? My ideal solution would be 'here's 8 months' salary, off you go, don't even bother coming in'. I would say that I kicked up a minor stink last time as I returned within OML after DD1 and they had given my role to my maternity cover (!) - got some legal advice and I had a good case, but figured a) legal advice was too expensive; b) payout would be less than a golden handcuffs I was due to receive (presumably they give them to poor performers, too?!) and c) couldn't face the whole process. So HR might have me down as a serial (with due cause!) complainer, or, I suppose, my boss as a serial offender, but he's much harder to get rid of. I'm rambling here.

"Without prejudice" just means that a discussion is an off the record attempt to settle a dispute. It's designed to let both parties be a bit more open when trying to settle without prejudicing their 'official' stance.

You can do an email, just mark it without prejudice.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Well, I have done nothing and today got a letter from my boss. Essentially it details all the business reasons why my role is better fulfilled by someone who can stay beyond 5pm (all valid).

Here is the essence, minus (***) the boring bit about why I should be there all afternoon:

Thank you for attending the office on Tuesday, to discuss with me your proposal regarding working arrangements on your return from maternity leave. As agreed I am writing to confirm [employer]'s position on this.

Following receipt of your email of 27 November, outlining your proposal and our meeting on Tuesday to discuss it, I am writing to explain the challenges that I feel we will face if you return to the office to work the fixed hours you have proposed.

We discussed at our meeting the need for us to raise the level of your performance and for you to make a greater impact on client portfolios than you have achieved to date {we didn't, not specifically], and I am committed to supporting you in doing this. However, I do feel that the restrictions with regard to you meeting business demands at the latter end of the day will be detrimental to you and make it extremely difficult for you to deliver the level of service being offered by your peers, and other members of the team.

Given the above, I am therefore asking that when you return to work in January you are as flexible as possible in terms of your working hours in the office particularly towards the end of the day, in line with business requirements. To clarify, I am not stating that you should expect to work until a specific time everyday but am highlighting to you the need for the flexibility that your role demands. I would confirm that there is no business requirement for you to arrive in the office at 7.30 hrs each morning and would encourage you to consider a later start to the day if this will enable to you to respond to business requirements, should they arise, later in the day. Upon your return I will regularly review with you how you are managing these challenges and will support you in every way I am able. Meanwhile, I would be happy to discuss further with you if you wish.

SO

a) can he do this, given that for the nearly 18 months I worked between children I worked 7.30-5 every day and this was NEVER RAISED as a problem in performance appraisals, as detailed above got good appraisals, bonus, well-above-inflation pay rise etc.? Is it really a 'proposal' to ask to come back to the same hours? I suspect not?

b) what should I do? make no further changes, go in at 8, leave at 5 and say 'as per your letter, I am being as flexible as possible' and wait for him to make me redundant? Could they sack me for that? Nothing against anyone who does, but I can't personally even contemplate working and seeing my kids at neither end of the day. I live an hour from work so would have to leave at 7 (before they get up) and would be back at bedtime if I left at 6.

Help! We need the money but if there's no option but to go back and never see my kids then we'll just have to move away from London.

No time now, but will try and help later!

Thank you!!

Was just thinking it might be a little indiscreet to copy and paste an email on here...

Sorry, still tied up. Tomorrow at some point, I will try and answer. Deep breath in the meantime.