Redundancy while on maternity leave

[Naetha]

Apologies for the new thread, but the subject matter on the old thread had meandered around so much I was getting lost!

The old thread is here.

Basically, they want to make 2 people out of a pool of 4 redundant, and I am one of them, currently on maternity leave.

They say they can do this, and this is all fine within the law - they say they've spoken to their legal team (which as a huge company, is probably fairly substantial) and consulted an external HR agent.

My argument (and one that the solicitor I spoke to last Thursday agreed with) is that because it is a scoring system (i.e. they are scoring me and my colleagues against eachother), they are treating the process not as a straightforwards redundancy, but as selection for posts. Therefore, as a woman on maternity leave, I should have priority for one of those posts.

Would this really stand up in court? If they pay a solicitor enough, and I represent myself, am I really going to be able to win?

I guess I'm just getting scared, but I'm aware that I could lose everything.

I have my appeal hearing on Wednesday (at which I am appealing the scores I was given - much lower than expected, and I don't think they took into account the fact that a) I haven't been there for 11 months, and b) I was pregnant for the last 8 months I worked there.) and I'm pretty nervous about that too - it's not nice to be told you're a bit of a failure in the first place, but to be told by someone more senior that yes, you're definitely a failure is going to be tough. I was going to have a work colleague come with me, but she can't make it now, so it's just going to be me and my LO crawling around at my feet.

Added to all this, it's completely the wrong time of the month for this, and combined with all the stress, I'm really struggling. I just know I'm going to break down into tears in this appeal. Any tactics for this to not happen?

Sorry, this thread's probably more for moral support, but it's definitely support I need!

You get extra protection if your position is redundant while you are on maternity leave and must be offered suitable employment where it is available.

So, if you are on maternity leave, your position was made redundant and if one of these new position was suitable for you, it should have been offered to you without having to compete with others.

Similarly if any of these other posts are suitable, one of them should be directly offered to you as well.

If they were interviewing you purely to see whether or not these new posts were suitable, that would be fine, but it shouldn't be done in competition for the job, if that makes sense. Even if the interview outcome was that actually these posts were not suitable for you, as they are telling you about other posts, it seems likely there is something suitable and as such you shouldn't have to apply for it.

The fact that you didn't know about this piece of legislation in time to bring it to their attention before the interview is irrelevant. It's their responsibility to familiarise themselves with the law and act accordingly - your ignorance is irrelevant.

I suggest you write to your HR department and state that according to the Maternity and Parental Leave Regulations 1999, Regulation 10, if a woman on maternity leave's position is redundant, she must be offered a suitable alternative vacancy where one is available, ie given preference over suitable roles that are available.

If you feel these three new roles were suitable for you in terms of skills, experience, terms and conditions, then you can point out that one of them should be offered directly to you, and if not, some other suitable post must be offered directly to you.

As an aside, if people have new queries it might be better to start a new thread rather than tack questions on to the end of an old thread, as things are less likely to get missed that way

Just to update, I have been given a court date of the 11th/12th August, however, this is likely to move as one of the witnesses can't make it that day (or for the rest of August/September) so goodness knows when it will be heard.

They offered me £1000 to settle, I returned with a counteroffer of £10,000. I won't take any less.

Fingers crossed everything just carries on as normal, especially as DC2 is due in November.

Hi Naetha,
Thanks for the update, even though not a final update. I have a pre-tribunal hearing this month for the 2 sides to discuss the issues prior to the tribunal. I am shocked at your case of them offering £1000, what kind of compensation is that when you consider all they have put you through?

In case others on this list don't like us butting into threads, can I suggest I give you my email address and we can chat more when the time comes to your settlement - or mine if I get there first?!
[email protected]

F.A.O Flowerybeanbag - urgent help !

On Mat Leave since 2-Mar-2009 and Return To Work date is 2-Nov-2009.

Received e-mail from Employer on 20-Jul-2009 informing me there was an office meeting scheduled for 23-Jul-2009, which he wanted me to attend.

Office meeting at work held on 23-Jul-2009 in which Redundancy Announcement was given. Group HR Officer said that 1 out of 3 PA positions being made redundant and that Selection Criteria scoring would determine the 2 that stay. Selection Criteria plus new Job Title/Duty sheet given out. HR officer said that the deadline for the Employer to score the Selection Criteria was 10am on 27-Jul-2009, and will that same day notify the person who has been selected for Redundancy and they will have to attend a meeting at 10am on 31-Jul-2009, and that the 2 remaining people will also be told they are staying.

Received phone call from Employer late afternoon of 27-Jul-2009 saying 'It's bad news you've been selected for redundancy, there's a letter in post explaining it all and we can re-arrange the meeting on Fri 31-Jul-2009 to something more convenient'.

------

I check my e-mails late on 27-Jul-2009 and there's one from HR officer sent to me 10 minutes after my phone call, attaching a letter stating:

"As a result of this review, it was decided that it is not financially viable to retain three PA roles and that one of the three roles would be selected for redundancy.

I regret to inform you that you have been provisionally selected for redundancy following application of the selection criteria. I enclose your score, together with a breakdown of how it was arrived at.

The company is looking at ways of avoiding redundancy or mitigating its consequences and also whether there may be alternative employment with the Company. We also wish to hear your representations before making a decision.

Please note this letter is for information only and is not formal notification that you will be redundant. Accordingly, you should not assume that you will be made redundant. You are simply at risk of redundancy at this stage.

A meeting has been arranged to take place on Friday 31st July at 10am. This meeting will take place at the Company's office. You should consider in advance what representations you wish to make at that meeting, and you should also consider whether there are opportunities for alternative employment within the Company, which you consider you would be interested in pursuing. Details of available vacant posts and job descriptions are enclosed for your attention.

You have the right to be accompanied at your individual consultation meeting by either a colleague or a trade union representative.

If you are made redundant you will be entitled to:

? The notice period set out in your contract or an equivalent payment in lieu. This will include any SMP entitlement.
? Pay in lieu of any accrued but unused holiday entitlement.
? A statutory redundancy payment, which is calculated on the basis of the employee's age, weekly salary (subject to a maximum, currently £350) and length of service.
? An ex gratia payment, which will be calculated as follows: 1 month?s pay, no deductions for PAYE tax or employee?s National Insurance Contributions will be made from this sum in accordance with section 403 of the Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003."

Attached to this letter are the Selection Criteria scores - one by my guy I work for, the other by another guy I do not work for. They have scored me down the middle on Performance, Accuracy, and Speed, even though my Company has never given me an Appraisal in the 4 years I've been with them.

Also attached to the letter is a vacancy for a role which is 3 times less Salary than I am on and in a location 80 miles away.

-----

I am really upset and do not what I say (if anything) at the 1st consultation meeting on 31-Jul-2009. I have spoken to ACAS who just referred me to the DirectGov website.

What should I say to my Employer and should I point out Regulation 10 of the Maternity & Paternity Leave etc. Regulations 1999?

Many thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

xxx

F.A.O Flowerybeanbag

Do I need to put anything in writing to my Employer at this stage, or at the 1st Consultation Meeting?

If I wasn't being made Redundant, I had considered looking for employment elsewhere when I went returned to work in Nov-2009 to be nearer home, whilst little un is being looked after full-time in Nursery. If I'm made Redundant now, then I can't afford to put little un in Nursery, and won't be able to look for another job as have no-one to look after little un when I have to go for interviews. There is also little guarantee of finding a job in the current economic climate, so at least I would still have a job, and could leave at a future date once I had found alternative employment first.

Should I fight for my job or take the money and run?

What is the maximum payout for Sexual Discrimination and/or Unfair Dismissal? Will the payout be based on say 6 months salary subject to PAYE tax and National Insurance Contributions, plus include non-contributory Employer Pension Contributions (currently been paid into my pension during Mat Leave).

If I go through with Employment Tribunal - how long will this take? If I win, will my Employer have to pay my Legal Costs or will I have to pay it? If I have to pay Legal Costs, any idea how much this is likely to be - may end up swallowing all of the money I get awarded. Any idea how much 'Award' I may get and would this be taxable, and how soon would my Employer have to cough up? Plus what happens about getting a 'good' reference for future employment elsewhere?

Many thanks again.

xxx

Snowsit

First thing to say is that they have not followed an appropriate consultation procedure for your redundancy. They are giving you individual consultation, asking to hear your views and giving you your right to representation by a colleague or trade union rep, but they are only doing this after the decision has been made. Meaningful consultation about the proposal to reduce headcount and the selection criteria they propose to use should take place before decisions have been made, to allow individuals the opportunity to actual have their views taken into account.

As they have already made their decision before consulting you, clearly they have no intention of taking your views about the proposed new structure and about the selection criteria into account, making any 'consultation' meaningless at best.

I would suggest you carefully research the directgov website as to what a reasonable procedure for redundancy would be, attend the meeting on Friday, state that as far as you are concerned a reasonable procedure was not followed, making your redundancy unfair, and formally notifying them that you will be appealing the decision. Clearly the only job available is not suitable so you are redundant, regardless of what they say about it not being confirmed yet.

You should also draw their attention to Reg 10 and their obligation to offer a woman on mat leave a suitable post where one is available. Say that they have chosen not to follow that requirement by not offering you one of the two PA posts available, and as a result their failure to follow that legal requirement as well as the failure to follow an appropriate procedure will be detailed within your appeal/grievance document. I wouldn't say any more than that, just use the meeting as information gathering and put them on notice that they will be receiving an appeal/grievance document.

In terms of whether you fight, I would at least fight as far as putting in an appeal while you work out what's best. There is no maximum award for Sex Discrimination, but the huge awards you hear about in the papers are very unusual, and it is likely to be largely based on actual financial loss as a result of their actions, with perhaps a bit for injury to feelings, but not much. When you hear about big awards it's usually for very high earners and often as a result of a sustained campaign of harassment and serious discriminatory treatment that has had a huge impact on their life.

For unfair dismissal there is a limit of about £60,000, but awards are purely based on financial loss alone. 6 months pay is fairly common, but basically a view is taken as to how long it is realistically likely to take for the individual to find alternative employment, which will depend on various factors.

Taking it all the way to a tribunal will take a long time and be stressful, which isn't to say you shouldn't do it, but needs to be born in mind.

In your case if you appeal the decision and raise the Reg 10 issue, one of three things will probably happen. They might offer you your job back and either keep 3 PAs or make one of your colleagues redundant. Doing that is fairly likely to result in your colleague kicking up a fuss, understandably of course. They may instead offer you a higher redundancy settlement to go away. Or they may deny that they used an unfair procedure and they may say that Reg 10 doesn't apply to your own job, only to different jobs and work on the assumption that you won't want to push them all the way to tribunal to find out.

If there is a settlement at any point along the way, which is most likely, then agreeing a good reference will be part of that.

your first step is to go to the meeting, see what they say, and put them on notice of your intention to appeal/raise a grievance on the basis of failure to follow reg 10. Assuming they don't suddenly change their mind at that point, you will need to get a stunning document together putting forward as strong a case as you can, to get them to respond with either your job or a better offer, which you can then decide whether to accept.

Thanks for your help so far Flowerybeanbag.

Fingers-crossed tomorrow goes well.

F.A.O Flowerybeanbag

An Employer Lawyer I spoke to today said that after tomorrow's 1st Consultation Meeting, I need to put in an 'Appeal' in writing immediately.

I was thinking something along these lines:-

--
To whom it may concern

On 23 July 2009 I was informed that it was bad news as I had been selected for redundancy and could re-arrange the meeting at xx:xx on 31 July 2009.

I would like to appeal against this decision based on the fact that xxx hasn't followed legal process for redundancy and it is therefore considered to be unfair dismissal.

Further to the Group HR Officer's letter of xxx date advising I had been provisionally selected for redundancy, attaching the scores from the selection criteria, I understand that I am part of a pool of x(number) employees, from which 1 person is being selected for redundancy and the other x will be retained in the x positions left available. How the remaining x positions are filled has been decided based on the scores awarded to each of the x people in the pool. Regulation 10 of the Maternity and Parental Leave Regulations (1999) states that as a woman on maternity leave, if there is a suitable position, I must be offered it in preference to other employees and cannot be put in a pool for selection for the post in competition with others.

As an employee who has been provisionally selected for redundancy whilst on maternity leave, I also have a sex discrimination claim if I am made redundant when there is a suitable available vacancy.

Please reply within 7 days from the date of receipt of this letter.

Yours sincerely,

------

Is this over the top? Alternatively could you please help me with wording, as I am due to go on holiday after the meeting!

Many thanks in advance once again.

xxx

Not at all over the top, unfortunately I would say that's not nearly enough detail tbh. I would advise you set out exactly where they have not followed a reasonable and appropriate procedure, explaining exactly what an appropriate procedure would have looked like, pointing out every action that was inappropriate or inadequate, pointing out everything that is wrong with the selection criteria themselves and then explaining the reg 10 stuff.

I can't help you any more than that on here I'm afraid. I produce/review/amend these sorts of documents for clients in similar positions as you on a paid basis fairly frequently so I'm sure you understand I can't do that for you for free as it wouldn't be fair to them.

Hi Flowerybeadbug

At such short notice, how can I get money across to you to pay for your urgent help to draft 'Appeal' letter?

You can e-mail me at [email protected] with the fee and your bank account details for me to transfer money over.

Many thanks.

Sorry Flowerybeanbag, for incorrectly referring to you.

Snowit - just to let you know in case you haven't seen it yet I emailed you first thing this morning. Hope meeting went well anyway.

Hi Flowerybeanbag

I asked ER at 1st meeting today whether they were aware of Reg 10 of MPLR 1999, and they said 'yes' (as if so what). They're not creating new roles but tweaking existing roles of which 80% of the duties I currently do will continue with the remainder to meet the ER's needs. What question can I ask that's relevant to Reg 10? I think my ER have made up their mind to be rid of me, but haven't considered the implications of Reg 10.

ER confirmed they as they don't do Appraisals or Performance Reviews, they've based Performance / Accuracy selection criteria evidence from documents held on client files. I asked how they evidenced Attitude or Effort, and they said it was based on what they know. (Surely this supports my case, they have no written confirmation to evidence scoring?)

Now got a 2nd consultation meeting in a week's time. I've drafted about 20 questions already in preparation, as I go away on holiday tomorrow and no time to prep prior to next meeting.

---

Do you think I should ask why my ER asked me to come back to work for them again after I left for 2 weeks, to go to another ER? (this happened 2 years ago)

Surely he wouldn't have done that if he had issues with my Performance, Accuracy, Effort, Attitude, or Speed? I was poached, as my ER approached me on the way to work and asked me 'if I were to ask you back, would you come back?' I said 'yes', thinking he was calling my bluff. A week later we meet to discuss terms and I receive an offer of employment letter. On receipt of this, I handed in my resignation - finished working with old ER on Friday and re-started on the Monday.

Prior to re-starting, I found out that the then 'Office Manager' had been made redundant and his job had been made into a new role (OM was a bully, so they every reason to get rid of him and he was the reason I left in the first place).

----

Am I ok to ask the above or will I face legal repercussions?

I've always known my ER was underhanded, so not particularly surprised he's trying to make me redundant for effectively being on Maternity Leave.

Cheers,

Snowsit

If them asking you to come back happened 2 years ago, it's too long ago to be relevant so I'd leave that.

I'm going to answer your email now

F.A.O ABCMum

I'm interested to hear of the final outcome of your case, as I think mine is going to end up the same way.

How long did it take for your Employer to respond to your Appeal? How much did your lawyer fees amount to in the end? Did you use a 'No Win No Fee' lawyer, and, have you got their contact details you could pass onto me?

I have further questions but will ask them via e-mail if that is ok with you.

I would appreciate if you could please e-mail me [email protected]

Many thanks in advance for getting back to me.

xxx

F.A.O Flowerybeanbag

At my 2nd Consultation Meeting, should I raise a grievance re: Reg 10 not being followed at the end of the meeting? Or should I just leave for the Appeal document?

You're probably glad I'm away for week, and looking forward to peace and quiet.

Cheers again in advance,

Snowsit

I realise this is quite an old thread.... has anyone's cases come to a result?

I am in a similar position and have just had acas come to me with what I feel is a ridiculous offer of £1,500.

Just a really brief post in case anyone comes back on this thread.

It's entirely legal to pool women on maternity leave with those not on maternity leave.

Legally, the positions of the other people in the pool are not considered "suitable alternative positions". The requirement to offer a suitable alternative under reg 10 kicks in after the selection process.

I'm a solicitor specialising in employment law and I wouuldn't want anyone to bring a claim on the basis that they were put in a pool as you'll just lose.

The rest of the points on this thread are fine though.

Thread resurrection alert!!
I am on adoption leave which I think is the same in legal terms as maternity leave and have been told I am at risk of redundancy along with everyone else on my grade. There are 28 of us and 19 positions which are suitable that we are all being told we have to compete for.

Am I right in thinking that I should automatically be offered one of these without having to be assessed or go through any tests? They would be a very similar role to my existing one and the only reason they're getting rid of some of us is due to cuts - public sector.

They are basically forcing me to take a test on the computer system we use tomorrow morning - they only told me on Friday I would have to do this. I was very upset about this as I haven't used the system for 6 months and feel this would be detrimental to my score. I argued this and they called me 5 times on Friday to sort it out and I refused to agree to it until I'd spoken to my union rep. She said I should do the test as if I didn't, I would get a nil score!!! I said this was not what HR told me, they said that if I didn't do the test then they would have to exclude everyone else's test results as it would not be treating everyone fairly!!! (The cheek of it...) I then did some research and found out that they shouldn't have even put me in the pool for assessments and that I should just be offered one of the jobs - I hope I have this right!!!

What should I do? They are ringing me tomorrow morning to get me to do the test at home - with my son and daughter at home - they said they would give me special allowance because I would be at home and not used the system for 6 months, but didn't quantify what these allowances would be. I've been stressed all weekend about this and I want to put in a complaint, but the words of the union rep keep coming back to me!

I actually wanted to go for voluntary redundancy, but they said I would have to pay back the enhanced maternity pay I had received, so I didn't go for it, I have only been there 6 years, so not a major payout!

Any advice before tomorrow would be appreciated, but realise this is a tall order. Will update when I can!
Thanks in advance,
Clare

Hi everyone.
Have just been made redundant in my 10 month of maternity leave.
Employer has told me I am not eligible for any notice pay because I am currently in the unpaid period of my maternity leave & given the extended notice period I will not be entitled to contractual wages.
Is this possible? I have worked for them for 3 years.
Any advice would be helpful.
Thnx!